Coffeehouse Thread

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how about this: make a COMPLICATED metro app

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  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , BitFlipper wrote

    No, we are talking about a real DAW, not a DJ mixing app. That is just how DAWs are used. With multiple monitors. With many open windows at the same time spread across multiple monitors. You often need to tweak multiple plugins per channel across multiple channels to get the desired sound. If you need to open/close windows endlessly to get to each of these plugins, it will interfere with this workflow.

    See that is part of the problem, the new gen UI designers at MS are so out of touch with real world use cases, they think everything can be reduced to a dumbed down finger app.

    Did you once again ignore the fact that I said UWP apps can spawn multiple windows?  Why do you keep acting like that is a limitation?

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , bondsbw wrote

    *snip*

    Add this line of XAML to a UWP application:

    1
    <Button Width="1" Height="1" />

    There, you have a button that is as small as any button could be...

    And which probably violates every "modern" design language principle in the book.

    If you thought this wasn't possible, why not?

    Hmm, I didn't actually think it wasn't possible. Just that if you were to follow the "modern" design language principles, it can't be done.

    But this brings me back to my original challenge which you failed so far... Show my any finger app that shows this type of use case. Any.

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , bondsbw wrote

    *snip*

    Did you once again ignore the fact that I said UWP apps can spawn multiple windows?  Why do you keep acting like that is a limitation?

    Sigh. I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to this comment from spivonious:

    And I hate applications with multiple floating windows. They always get lost behind other windows or get in the way on top of something I'm trying to work with...

  • User profile image
    kettch

    , BitFlipper wrote

    *snip*

    And which probably violates every "modern" design language principle in the book.

    *snip*

    Hmm, I didn't actually think it wasn't possible. Just that if you were to follow the "modern" design language principles, it can't be done.

    But this brings me back to my original challenge which you failed so far... Show my any finger app that shows this type of use case. Any.

    You are quick to mock the UI guidelines for UWP apps, but you clearly haven't looked at any of them. If someone wanted to build a mouse-and-keyboard oriented application using UWP, there would be nothing to stop them. In fact, it would probably be a good exercise of the platform. It would be nice if they made sure that their application was adaptive, but not mandatory.

    You're right that touch based applications have no call for floating windows, but, again, you are making the assumption that UWP can only be used for touch-only applications. That's just plain wrong.

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , kettch wrote

    *snip*

    You are quick to mock the UI guidelines for UWP apps, but you clearly haven't looked at any of them. If someone wanted to build a mouse-and-keyboard oriented application using UWP, there would be nothing to stop them. In fact, it would probably be a good exercise of the platform. It would be nice if they made sure that their application was adaptive, but not mandatory.

    Examples? Is that too much to ask for?

    I went through all controls in VS 2015 and played with them. Really, it's not something I want to use for anything serious, let alone a very complex application.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    , BitFlipper wrote

    Examples? Is that too much to ask for?

    Fully built examples?  I don't know of any.  Which isn't surprising, because 1) UWP app submissions just opened recently, and 2) I haven't cared enough to look.  I don't even know if Microsoft distinguishes UWP apps in its store, and I'm not on a Windows 10 computer to check right now.

    Feel free to look for them yourself.

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , bondsbw wrote

    *snip*

    Fully built examples?  I don't know of any.  Which isn't surprising, because 1) UWP app submissions just opened recently, and 2) I haven't cared enough to look.  I don't even know if Microsoft distinguishes UWP apps in its store, and I'm not on a Windows 10 computer to check right now.

    Feel free to look for them yourself.

    Uh, not examples (as in samples), real applications, duh. Examples of, you know, real applications.

    Since you claimed it can be done, the challenge was that you show a single complex application (which is also the whole point of this thread, btw). So far nothing. Not even MS has been able to develop a single impressive app so far.

    So why exactly should I prove your point since you said it should be no problem?

    On the other hand, here is my proof: Visit Windows Store

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    OK, serious question...

    I'm playing with VS 2015 trying to create a UWP app that spawns two modeless child windows. The child windows must at least be movable outside of the main window. So far no luck.

    The best I can do is show a modal child window. I was able to enable dragging on it, but it just pops back to the center of the parent when you let it go.

    I did quite a bit of searching with no luck. How is this done?

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @BitFlipper: Here you go...

    Seriously, I am in bed typing on my phone with one eye open and was able to find something in half the time it took to explain this.

    You aren't even trying.  To quote one of my favorite TV shows:  "For that reason, I'm out."  Do your own homework from now on.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    That's very complicated compared to winforms. I would never be able to come up with that solution by myself.

  • User profile image
    bondsbw

    @ZippyV:  It would be simple to refactor that into a CreateWindow() method.  To me, this just shows that you have more fine-tuned control over that process, which may be desired if you publish your app for different form factors (phone vs. PC vs. XBox vs. HoloLens vs. Raspberry Pi).

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