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iPhone 5

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  • User profile image
    cbae

    You're cartographing it wrong!

  • User profile image
    cbae

    LOL!

     

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  • User profile image
    Ray7

    , BitFlipper wrote

    This is pretty much the definition of form over function.

    Check this, this, this.

    But hey, it makes for a pretty demo. I've already seen reviews where they "forget" to mention the maps.

    The thing is you can't fix something like this in a week or two. Supposedly the maps are out of date all over the place. It's not a simple one line bug fix. And it's not like they are going to go back to Google maps again.

    The map data is sourced from third parties such as TomTom. When folk try the same searches on TomTom products they get better results, so it does look like the problem is at Apple's end. 

    Apple notes that 99% of the mapping data is correct. The problem is that when you're talking about mapping data, 1% errors is a massive number of failures. 

    One recurring problem with the 3D stuff is roads that go under buildings or bridges; they get drawn over the top of them, which is mind-blowing.  If the world looked like that I wouldn't leave the house. 

     

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    @Ray7: This 3D problem is hardly unique to Apple though. Take Flight Simulator X for example: as much as Ultimate Terrain X Europe is a great add-on that immensely improves the accuracy of vector data (roads, railways, waterways, coastlines) for Europe over the default FSX data, it does mess up the A16 to Amsterdam which goes under the taxiways at Schiphol Airport. Instead, it has cars driving over the taxiways (fortunately FSX does not have collision detection between road vehicles and airplanes). Smiley

    I don't really care about the messed up 3D (I don't even get the 3D on iPhone 4 anyway). I want maps that can find the places I want to go and give me directions to get there. Apple's maps app does neither for me at the moment.

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    BitFlipper

    None of this is an excuse for this extremely bad decision to ship it in the 1st place. It wasn't even shipped as a beta product, but as a full-blown replacement for a fully functional app that people rely on every day. I know it sounds a bit over-dramatic but people are being directed up one-way streets, onto non-existent streets, illegal turns etc. This could be problematic especially at night when you might realize the error too late - yes someone can actually get hurt or killed.

    And I don't buy the 99% claim at all. Did Apple calculate how much of the data is actually valid? No of course not, how could they? When they released it I'm sure they were convinced it was 99.999% accurate.

    What really gets me is how Apple essentially admitted Maps is a failure and people should be using competing products, yet you still find Apple fans claiming it isn't that bad or that people are over-reacting. Which part of "Apple just admitted it is a POS" don't they get?

    EDIT: It's not just that the data is inaccurate, it's also that the routing is borked. There are screenshots of routing that takes you miles away into the opposite direction to some imaginary destination while the actual destination is clearly marked with the red pin within a mile of the starting location. I guess Apple though mapping was easy, or that their engineers were smart enough to get it right in a short amount of time.

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    elmer

    Essentially, customers are collateral damage in Apple's war with Google, and it's clear that Apple think they are able to absorb that one and still 'win'.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    What I think is stupid is that Apple is doing everybody a favor. They are keeping you from leaving your house, and making you loads safer than you've ever been before. Even if you do venture outside, you definitely aren't going to be glued to your maps app, and will actually be looking at the road. You didn't really want to go anywhere today, did you? Now stay home and buy stuff on iTunes.

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    Ray7

    , elmer wrote

    Essentially, customers are collateral damage in Apple's war with Google, and it's clear that Apple think they are able to absorb that one and still 'win'.

    I don't think it's anything to do with the so-called 'war'. Apple employs this strategy when its partners aren't doing what it wants them to do.

    Adobe wouldn't make Flash work efficiently on iOS, so Apple pulled Flash support and Flash Mobile died.

    EPEAT wouldn't register the Macbook Pro Retina, so Apple pulled all its products from EPEAT. A few days later, all Apple's gear is back under EPEAT, including the Retina machine.

    Google refuses to allow turn-by-turn navigation and voice control in the service delivered to iOS. Apple cuts 100million users from Google's ad stream overnight. My guess is that Google will release their own app ... with turn-by-turn navigation.

    Why is turn-by-turn navigation and voice navigation so important? 

    Apple has signed deals with the major car manufacturers to support their 'Eyes Free' initiative, starting next year. There's a lot to play for.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    , BitFlipper wrote

    None of this is an excuse for this extremely bad decision to ship it in the 1st place. It wasn't even shipped as a beta product, but as a full-blown replacement for a fully functional app that people rely on every day.

    Whether or not it is a bad decision depends really on what the overall objective is. See my reply to Elmer.

    I know it sounds a bit over-dramatic but people are being directed up one-way streets, onto non-existent streets, illegal turns etc. This could be problematic especially at night when you might realize the error too late - yes someone can actually get hurt or killed.

    Smiley

    Yes, you are being overdramatic, but people tend to be when they're talking about Apple. The fact is that GPS navigation systems have been giving duff advice for years, and yes, sometimes that advice has proven fatal. However, these systems were never intended to replace good judgement and common sense. In other words, if you let your satnav guide you over a cliff then you're an idiot. Bing once guided me to a gate that said 'track not suitable for cars'. Did I drive through it? No, I used the signposts to find an alternative route.

    And I don't buy the 99% claim at all. Did Apple calculate how much of the data is actually valid? No of course not, how could they? When they released it I'm sure they were convinced it was 99.999% accurate.

    Apple's data is taken and amalgamated from different sources world wide. Apple then does some jiggery-pokery to present a consistent(?) global service. The problem could possibly lie with the jigging or the poking, rather than the data itself. Some of the sources come from services such as Yelp which may also have local inaccuracies (I've already moved our local petrol station about a mile down the road). By now, Apple probably has about a billion search hits on their mapping service, along with requests for alternatives searches, and bug reports made directly from the application. They also ran it as a beta trial for a while and so I think they have enough information to make a fairly decent guess.

    What really gets me is how Apple essentially admitted Maps is a failure and people should be using competing products, yet you still find Apple fans claiming it isn't that bad or that people are over-reacting. Which part of "Apple just admitted it is a POS" don't they get?

    Because Apple fans understand something that you don't: the internet is the world's biggest echo chamber. You've got a number of factors affecting the problem's perceived size:

    1. The number of people who genuinely have a problem (hard to quantify without access to Apple's figures)
    2. The number of people who don't have a problem, but hate Apple (quite large)
    3. The number of people who love Apple but hate Tim Cook for not being Steve Jobs (larger than group 2)
    4. The number of people who don't have a problem, don't hate Apple, don't hate Tim Cook, but feel left out if they don't join in (I actually read a post from someone who said he didn't actually have a problem, but felt that he should because he read lots of other people were).
    5. The number of articles repeating the same anecdotes from groups 1 through 5
    6. Finally, the number of people who are using the service, don't have any issues, and so, quite rightly, don't say anything. (Size unknown).

    The interesting thing that happened after the apology was the number of people now saying that the service is fine and Cook is a weakling for apologising! Damed if you do...

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    And it seems we're getting close to the answer concerning the other Apple crime against humanity: replacing the old dock connectors with something that STILL isn't micro-USB!

    Seems that the lightning connector isn't just a connector; it has a chip inside it which is responsible for dynamically allocating the pins when the cable is plugged in. 

    The process seems pretty straightforward:

    Plugging in the connector sends a short identifier request to the device (this also means that no power or signals traverse the cable until it is plugged into an iPhone or something). It says, 'hello, I'm a USB cable."

    Or rather, "Hello, I'm a certified Apple USB cable."

    The iPhone responds: "Are you now? In that case, I want you to use pin8 for power, pin 6 for incoming guff, pin4 for outgoing nonsense...."

    If it's a Display port cable then the phone can allocate pin6 for power, pin8 for video, pin7 for sound...

    So basically, the lightning connector will be able to cope with any protocol that comes up now or in the future. 

    This is not possible with MicrosUSB

    http://brockerhoff.net/blog/2012/09/23/boom-pins/

    And I'm sure that this will kill the market for cheap third-party cables stone dead. 

    And it may also explain why Apple isn't worried about USB3 support.

     

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    And finally:

    The A6 chip is causing some ructions in the hardware fan pages. Turns out that it's an ARM instruction-set chip designed by Apple from the ground-up. 

    Yes, Martha. Apple is now designing its own processors.

    So how're they doing? Early benchmarks suggest that it compares well against quad-core chips while drawing less power. That's quite a trick.

    And of course this has led analysts to ask 'If they can get that kind of real-world performance out of a dual core chip, then what can they do with a quad?"

     

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    Sven Groot

    , Ray7 wrote

    Because Apple fans understand something that you don't: the internet is the world's biggest echo chamber. You've got a number of factors affecting the problem's perceived size:

    1. The number of people who genuinely have a problem (hard to quantify without access to Apple's figures)
    2. The number of people who don't have a problem, but hate Apple (quite large)
    3. The number of people who love Apple but hate Tim Cook for not being Steve Jobs (larger than group 2)
    4. The number of people who don't have a problem, don't hate Apple, don't hate Tim Cook, but feel left out if they don't join in (I actually read a post from someone who said he didn't actually have a problem, but felt that he should because he read lots of other people were).
    5. The number of articles repeating the same anecdotes from groups 1 through 5
    6. Finally, the number of people who are using the service, don't have any issues, and so, quite rightly, don't say anything. (Size unknown).

    The interesting thing that happened after the apology was the number of people now saying that the service is fine and Cook is a weakling for apologising! Damed if you do...

    That's all very nice, but if, like me, you're actually in the group that has a genuine problem (a great maps app has been replaced with one that can't find anything in my area) that doesn't really help you.

    I don't care if Apple's maps are 99% correct if I live in the 1% that isn't. Even more so because the service they booted was correct, and the features they're adding to the new maps app like turn by turn navigation are irrelevant to me.

  • User profile image
    BitFlipper

    , Ray7 wrote

    The fact is that GPS navigation systems have been giving duff advice for years, and yes, sometimes that advice has proven fatal.

    You can't seriously be comparing the typical GPS error rate to that of iOS6 Maps.

    Apple's data is taken and amalgamated from different sources world wide. Apple then does some jiggery-pokery to present a consistent(?) global service. The problem could possibly lie with the jigging or the poking, rather than the data itself.

    So basically even in their "apology" Apple once again succeeds in deceiving people. They claim the data is 99% correct, implying that you'd only have problems with 1% of the data (that's what we are supposed to think, right?). But in reality it's not so much the data that is the problem, but the inability to extract, calculate and present that data reliably to the user. In that regard it is much less than 99% accurate.

    By now, Apple probably has about a billion search hits on their mapping service, along with requests for alternatives searches, and bug reports made directly from the application. They also ran it as a beta trial for a while and so I think they have enough information to make a fairly decent guess.

    Yet this "beta" of theirs somehow completely failed to anticipate the magnitude of problems people will run into (no-one noticed the borked roads underneath bridges?). Apple completely bit off too much. They are not a mapping company. You don't get to become a mapping company overnight. There is no way they can fix this thing in a short amount of time. Sure they are fixing the most obvious errors - the ones being posted online to show what a joke Maps is. Now they are creating the illusion that they are fixing the problems fast, yet if there are so many problems in the obvious places, how long is it going to take them to fix all the problems everywhere else? The world is quite large, you know.

    BitFlipper wrote:

    What really gets me is how Apple essentially admitted Maps is a failure and people should be using competing products, yet you still find Apple fans claiming it isn't that bad or that people are over-reacting. Which part of "Apple just admitted it is a POS" don't they get?

    Ray7 wrote:

    Because Apple fans understand something that you don't: the internet is the world's biggest echo chamber. You've got a number of factors...

    I rest my case.

    Why can't people like you just accept it when Apple screws up, and not keep making weak excuses for them? Once again even Apple tells you it is a POS and to go and use the competition's products. How can you guys still not be able to accept it? My feeling is that it is the hardcore Apple fans that fear Apple's precious "Apple Quality" is taking a serious beating and it is hard to deal with it. "Apple Quality" doesn't mean anything these days anymore. The Maps problem isn't the only issue with the iPhone 5, there are also the hardware issues, but I'm sure you are aware of those too.

  • User profile image
    brich

    While iPhone users wait for Apple to solve the deficiencies of their new MAPS app, they can easily use this very slick alternative:  http://www.fullpower.com/

    This also makes it easy to wean off that POS Google Maps (which has always been flawed in my experience).

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    thaijersey

    The legendary iphone5 longing for.Ha-ha

     

     

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    cbae

    Even spambots are take potshots at the iPhone 5. LOL

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    Ray7

    , Sven Groot wrote

    *snip*

    That's all very nice, but if, like me, you're actually in the group that has a genuine problem (a great maps app has been replaced with one that can't find anything in my area) that doesn't really help you.

    I don't care if Apple's maps are 99% correct if I live in the 1% that isn't. Even more so because the service they booted was correct, and the features they're adding to the new maps app like turn by turn navigation are irrelevant to me.

    Er... that's what I said. The problem with being 99% correct isn't so great when you consider the size of the data set. 

     

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    Ray7

    , BitFlipper wrote

    *snip*

    You can't seriously be comparing they typical GPS error rate to that of iOS6 Maps.

    *snip*

    No, I was merely addressing your bout of hysteria by pointing out that the errors in Maps were not going to cause people drive off into ravines in droves. The number of stupid people on the planet has not suddenly doubled because Apple release buggy software.

    So basically even in their "apology" Apple once again succeeds in deceiving people. They claim the data is 99% correct, implying that you'd only have problems with 1% of the data (that's what we are supposed to think, right?).

    Now, you're gettin' it! 

    I think you're ready for the real shocker now: that wasn't so much an apology as a ransom note addressed to Google. 

    But in reality it's not so much the data that is the problem, but the inability to extract, calculate and present that data reliably to the user. In that regard it is much less than 99% accurate.

    Yes, I'd go with that. So would Apple, since they've gone to great lengths to point out that the data is accurate and that problem is theirs to fix. I guess the reason they're okay with that is that problems with the data would take longer to put right. 

    Yet this "beta" of theirs somehow completely failed to anticipate the magnitude of problems people will run into (no-one noticed the borked roads underneath bridges?).

    Do you honestly believe that in three years of development no one noticed that the Hoover Dam looked a bit squiffy? No, this is a power play to get Google to build a decent mapping application for the iOS platform. Will they do it, or will they say goodbye to 100 million users (and counting)? My guess is that they'll build it how Apple wants them to build it.

    I have to say, I find this all fascinating. I've never seen a company play fast and loose with its reputation in order to get what it wants. Jobs did it with Flash (and won), Cook did it again with EPEAT (and won), and he's doing it again with Maps (jury's still out), and they've been doing it for years with the Samsung case.

    Apple completely bit off too much.

    Group 2 (those who worship Jobs) forget that he made quite a few mistakes during his second coming. The most remarkable CEO of his generation? Undoubtedly. Infallible? Not by a long shot. He made two glaring errors which the company is still trying to set right: allowing Eric Schmidt onto the board of directors, and not seeing the importance of mapping ten years ago.

    They are not a mapping company.

    Really? Gosh. You know what else they weren't?

    An MP3 Player company.

    They also weren't a music store.

    or a movie store.

    Or a company that knew anything about mobile phones.

    Or tablets.

    Up until six years ago they didn't know jack about processor design.

    Or memory optimisation.

    But let's hold that thought, shall we?

    You don't get to become a mapping company overnight.

     

    They're not trying to be a mapping company. All they're doing is presenting data from third party partners. 

    There is no way they can fix this thing in a short amount of time. Sure they are fixing the most obvious errors - the ones being posted online to show what a joke Maps is. Now they are creating the illusion that they are fixing the problems fast, yet if there are so many problems in the obvious places, how long is it going to take them to fix all the problems everywhere else? The world is quite large, you know.

    The world is large and mapped 99% correctly. If the problem is Apple's map rendering, then fixing the underlying cause of the problem will fix a lot of the erroneous results. If that isn't the problem then it will take a lot longer to fix. Either way, Google will step with an iOS application in fairly short order, which I think is the real reason behind this game Apple's playing.

    Why can't people like you just accept it when Apple screws up, and not keep making weak excuses for them? Once again even Apple tells you it is a POS and to go and use the competition's products. How can you guys still not be able to accept it? My feeling is that it is the hardcore Apple fans that fear Apple's precious "Apple Quality" is taking a serious beating and it is hard to deal with it. "Apple Quality" doesn't mean anything these days anymore. The Maps problem isn't the only issue with the iPhone 5, there are also the hardware issues, but I'm sure you are aware of those too.

    I understand your frustration. Each time Apple trips, they get up, brush it off and make another few billion. You want them to fail because you cannot understand why they're successful, and the selfish so-and-sos refuse to accommodate you. That's fair enough; I feel the same way about Manchester United, but turning your frustration on Apple's customers won't help you or make a difference to them, because they're already Apple's harshest critics, and always have been. 

    I dunno though; if some idiot does manage to get hurt or killed using the Apple Maps, then the outcry could be fatal for Apple, so keep your fingers crossed, eh? ... Wink

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