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Boo now running on Java, coding in Eclipse

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  • Andrew Davey

    Links:
    http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/bamboo/archives/001623_introducing_boojay.html


    http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/bamboo/archives/001629_boojay_does_eclipse.html


    Good job Microsoft Dev Div people - You seemed to have ignored Boo enough to mean the developers of it are now heading in the JVM direction!

    Whilst I'm all for Boo running on the JVM and .NET, what sucks is that I prefer .NET (BCL and runtime) way more than Java offerings.
    The real kicker is that Eclipse integration for Boo means there is now a great IDE for it (sorry but SharpDevelop doesn't cut it).

    Boo is a great language. If people want to start playing with it then they will probably go for the nicest experience i.e. Eclipse.
    This means they'll be targeting Java. So we will have lost an amazing .NET language to Java!

    Sad times. Sad

    For goodness sake get someone thinking about bringing Boo into the warm and fuzzy world of Visual Studio. PLEASE!

  • wkempf

    Andrew Davey wrote:
    Links:
    http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/bamboo/archives/001623_introducing_boojay.html


    http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/bamboo/archives/001629_boojay_does_eclipse.html


    Good job Microsoft Dev Div people - You seemed to have ignored Boo enough to mean the developers of it are now heading in the JVM direction!

    Whilst I'm all for Boo running on the JVM and .NET, what sucks is that I prefer .NET (BCL and runtime) way more than Java offerings.
    The real kicker is that Eclipse integration for Boo means there is now a great IDE for it (sorry but SharpDevelop doesn't cut it).

    Boo is a great language. If people want to start playing with it then they will probably go for the nicest experience i.e. Eclipse.
    This means they'll be targeting Java. So we will have lost an amazing .NET language to Java!

    Sad times. Sad

    For goodness sake get someone thinking about bringing Boo into the warm and fuzzy world of Visual Studio. PLEASE!


    I don't get it.  Microsoft has no affiliation with Boo at all.  Why should they "bring it into the warm and fuzzy world ov Visual Studio"?  The Boo folks can do that themselves.  If they don't care to, then that's their choice and why should anyone care?  And if you do care, why don't you do the effort?

    There are many languages that target the .NET environment that Microsoft has no affiliation with.  Should Microsoft waste their time bringing all of these languages into Visual Studio?  I really don't think so.

    And targeting both runtimes is not anything new, either.  Scala targets both the JVM and the CLR, for instance.  I haven't read the articles you linked to yet, but is Boo seriously considering a complete switch to the JVM, or are they planning to target both runtimes?  If it's the latter, there's even less reason for anyone to care.

  • wkempf

    OK, I should have read the articles first.  Now there's even less reason to care.

    1.  This wasn't done by the Boo developers.

    2.  It's using IKVM, which has been around for some time and could be applied to any .NET language.

    3.  There's no indication that this is interesting to anyone other than the developer working on it (nothing wrong with that), so there's no indication that someone such as yourself should care, much less the vast majority of the rest of us.

  • Andrew Davey

    From: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/bamboo/archives/001623_introducing_boojay.html

    UPDATE: Just in case it's not clear, the generated class files DO NOT require IKVM in any way and can be executed in any compliant JVM.

  • Andrew Davey

    Microsoft had no connection with Ruby or Python either originally.
    They hired people to work on IronPython and create IronRuby too.

    What annoys me is that Boo is a very innovative language (more so than Python I'd say). It may be that Ruby has more hype at the moment, so it's a good marketing decision to implement it on .NET.

    So in a way I'm trying to make sure people at Microsoft know that Boo is loved by a lot of developers. Therefore it deserves the love that Python and Ruby are getting.

  • Andrew Davey

    wkempf wrote:
    If they don't care to, then that's their choice and why should anyone care?  And if you do care, why don't you do the effort?


    Implementing full Visual Studio integration is a LOT of work, so I wouldn't be able to do it on my own Smiley
    If Microsoft could reach out the Boo community and offer direct assistance perhaps that would help things?

    Boo adds great value to the .NET platform. It would be awesome to see Microsoft endorse it! Smiley

  • DouglasH

    Well when I read the announcements from Bamboozled (which is the lead developer btw)

    He announced that on a challenge from a user that wouldn't use Boo unless it combiled to Java byte code.

    So he used Ikvm to do so and it worked. and took it one step further and tested writeing an add in to eclipse in Boo and that worked.

    So I don't see it as a big deal. ANTLR the program used to write the parser and tree structure for BOO is a Java program. I am personally surprised it took this long for it show up as being compiled to Java byte code.

    with vs 2k8 should be easier to implement in the vs family.

    couple of corrections.  Jim did a proof of concept and made IronPython to show that a dynamic language couldn't be supported in the clr. was proved wrong and carried on improving IP. He was hired on by MS to improve dynamic language support in the clr. IronPython already existed at that time.

    I personally wish Boo had a higher install base of programmers. it  would then make sense to bring it in as a base language. As such it unfortantly doesn't.

    Boo and Nemeral are two of the interesting languages. 

  • Andrew Davey

    Like I said: "hired people to work on IronPython"
    Smiley

    Hehe yea I love how that whole endeavour worked out!

  • Andrew Davey

    I wonder how the number of users of F# compare to users of Boo?

  • littleguru

    It's an open secret that the integration part of VS needs some brush up. I hope - really I do - that they finally take care of these 10+ years old API and add some nice layer above it to allow people to integrate more easily!

    I'm speaking about own compilers, editors, debuggers and that stuff! Now an addin that opens a messagebox if you click it form the menu - which is also a pain if you try to create the menu item in a localized version of VS!

    looooooooooots of work ahead!

  • DouglasH

    Can't say really, Although several groups within MS use OCaml and some even actually use F#.

    The main thing is that F# is a functional language, and was the basis for implementing Generics into the Framework.

    Guessing that it will be used to  make a class of functional languages fully usable.

    Wish they would work to support erlang in that also, light weight threads is needed in the framework. would allow for another way to solve the concurrency issues among other benefits.

    now don't get me wrong I like Boo, and a few other languages that are skunk works projects. and wish they got some love. But I am also a realist, understand how business works.

    For Boo, I would work with MS to get the DLR to a state that the dynamic aspects are fully supported.

    on the VSIP program yell scream kindly ask that the issues with extending VS be resolved. especially in adding new languages. now that it is free to use Smiley

    douglas

     

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