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4 gigs of ram slower than 2 gigs of ram??

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  • User profile image
    mykemyk2008

    Hi im not sure if this is the right place to post this but im having a problem. I just bought another 2 gigs of ram so i have a total of 4x1 gigs of ddr2 pc8500 ram. Problem is when i use memtest86 v3.4a i see my bandwidth is 3200mb/s with 4 gigs. It used to be 5000mb/s with 2 gigs. I use other tools to benchmark as well such as SiSoft Sandra. I run the memory bandwidth test and it told me i had around 7500-8800mb/s with 2 gigs. With 4 gigs i Sandra now tells me i have 6200mb/s. I have not changed the bios since. My system is as such

    Vista Ultimate 32bit
    Q6600 @ 3.2 ghz
    GA P35 DS3R rev 2.0 bios f6
    4x1 gigs Crucial Ballistix ddr2 pc 8500 @ 1068mhz 5-5-5-15 2.2v

    There are no errors in memtest but it takes triple as long to complete the pass. I am also aware of the 4 gig problem with 32 bit. My OS recognizes 3.5 gigs. Any help would be appreciated

  • User profile image
    Gberg

    Could it be that due to the O/S limitation on memory that you are no longer running in Dual Channel? 

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    Are you sure that all 4 gigs of memory have identical timings?

    Your mobo will only run as fast as the slowest memory sticks.

  • User profile image
    RichardRudek

    Have you tested the new memory by itself - as in, replace the existing RAM with the new RAM (in the same DIMM sockets as you original RAM) ?

    That aside, I'm not sure how well those programs are written with regard to their immunity to the effects of the CPU caches. So if you feel like tinkering, you could test the programs by tinkering with the RAM setups.

    For example, the motherboard uses the P35 chipset, which supports dual channel operation, when DIMM is installed in the approriate sockets (see the manual, page 16). So in order to test the testing program's immunity to caching effects, you need to test with varing RAM capacities.

    As you only have 1GB modules, then that means tesing with 1GB, 2GB, 3GB, and 4GB. The problem though, is the dual channel business. The motherboard will configure itself for dual channel operation, when it can. So testing each of those capacity points is not going to be testing just the programs immunity to cache effects. But it should give us an idea testing 1GB and 2GB single channel, plus 2GB and 4GB dual channel. You already have the dual channel numbers, so all you need to test now are the single channel configurations.

    What I expect to see is that the single channel performance should be slower, but not twice as slow. Moreover, there will be a similar discrepancy in the throughput rates between the 1GB and 2GB single channel figures, as there are between the 2GB and 4GB dual channel figures.

    As for the the 3GB capacity point, it would be interesting to see both what the motherboard does with regard to dual and single channel operation. But more importantly, what the testing programs report.

    EDIT: Oh, and if those programs don't already tell you this, you should confirm the memory modules are compatible with each other. ie get their SPD details, etc. I usually use [CPUZ] for that.

  • User profile image
    mykemyk2008

    Hi guys thanks for the replies. I use cpu-z already and my timings are what they are supposed to be and all ram sticks are identical. I am running in dual channel. CPU-z says my DC Mode is Symmetric (not sure what that means). CPU-z also has a bug with 8500 ram stating that its 6400 ram but i do infact have 8500 ram. So what should be my first step. I was kind of unclear as to what to do/try. It cant have anything to do with the page file right? Could it be my motherboard doesnt like 4 gigs?

    EDIT: WOW at the first set i bought and then i compared one old ram stick to one new ram stick and it looks like its missing one complete side of ram. Like i have a 8 ram chips on one side of the stick and 8 on the other side of the stick both sides covered by the heatspreaders. On my new ones it appears to only have 8 chips on one side and none on the other side. The stick is not as thick either. So i took out the old ones and put in the new ones and it still says im running 2gigs. But how can this be??? There are defintely not the same amount of chips on them.


    ARE THERE any programs that accurately tell me my ram speed etc etc. CPU-Z,Everest, SiSoft tell me my ram is ddr2 pc6400

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    mykemyk2008 wrote:
    Hi guys thanks for the replies. I use cpu-z already and my timings are what they are supposed to be and all ram sticks are identical. I am running in dual channel. CPU-z says my DC Mode is Symmetric (not sure what that means). CPU-z also has a bug with 8500 ram stating that its 6400 ram but i do infact have 8500 ram. So what should be my first step. I was kind of unclear as to what to do/try. It cant have anything to do with the page file right? Could it be my motherboard doesnt like 4 gigs?

    It's quite possible that whatever memory location CPU-z is using to determine your ram type is also fooling your motherboard into thinking you have slower ram.

    Make sure you have the latest mobo drivers and BIOS to be sure.

    Your boot up screen will tell you how much ram the motherboard believes you have, so as long as it shows 4 gig, you shouldn't have a problem with the motherboard not recognizing all 4 gig. 

    That said, I'd rather have 4 gig of ram and lose some ram speed than have 2 gig of faster ram.  I'm not saying you shouldn't try to figure out the problem, but even if you can't you'll notice a better response from the system.
    mykemyk2008 wrote:

    EDIT: WOW at the first set i bought and then i compared one old ram stick to one new ram stick and it looks like its missing one complete side of ram. Like i have a 8 ram chips on one side of the stick and 8 on the other side of the stick both sides covered by the heatspreaders. On my new ones it appears to only have 8 chips on one side and none on the other side. The stick is not as thick either. So i took out the old ones and put in the new ones and it still says im running 2gigs. But how can this be??? There are defintely not the same amount of chips on them.

    If you have good eyesight or get out a magnifying glass, you'll see that the words on the chips are different, too.  It is likely that the newer chips have put twice the ram in each chip.  Technology is like that Smiley

    But, that means that you don't, in fact, have 4 identical ram sticks. 

    You should also read your manual and look for a section that describes which memory slots need to be paired in order for the memory to work in dual-channel mode.  If you don't do this right, then you won't get the advantage of the dual channel.  The sticks can't just have the same specs, they have to be identical.

    Edit: I didn't type what I meant.

  • User profile image
    mykemyk2008

    So even though they are the same company, ram, speed, timings and size but they only have 8 chips instead of 16 chips on the sticks it means they arent identical and wont run properly??? I mean thats pretty much a scam. There is not other way to find out that they have 8 chips instead of 16 chips when you buy them

  • User profile image
    RichardRudek

    mykemyk2008 wrote:
    So even though they are the same company, ram, speed, timings and size but they only have 8 chips instead of 16 chips on the sticks it means they arent identical and wont run properly??? I mean thats pretty much a scam. There is not other way to find out that they have 8 chips instead of 16 chips when you buy them


    At the bottom of page 16, in the manual I linked to earlier:
    When memory modules of different capacity and chips are installed, a message which says memory is operating in Flex Memory Mode will appear during the POST. IntelĀ® Flex Memory Technology offers greater flexibility to upgrade by allowing different memory sizes to be populated and remain in Dual Channel mode/performance.
    POST is an acroymn for Power On Self Tests - the 'black screens' you see during a power up, before starting Windows.

    As for whether this is a scam or not, only if they made the claim, which I think you'll find they did not (otherwise they would have been sued already). I am not a laywer (IANAL), BUT IF the new modules have exactly the same part numbers, you might have a claim against them. At the very least, a no cost refund.

    If you want the details of what this Flex Memory Mode does in terms of performance, then that would probably be described in the P35 chipset documentation, from Intel.

    From what you've described, I probably wouldn't worry about it, unless you have a genuine (not member measuring) need. But it's your money, and if they've been dishonest, go after 'em.

  • User profile image
    mykemyk2008

    I did some testing on my own here. The good news for me is the part numbers are identical and the picture of the box with the part number on their site shows a part of the part number "16"fd5 but i received "8fe5" The other longer part numbers are identical on the box.

    Here are my results from my tests using memtes86 v3.4a

    Reference here is "old chips" meaning ones i bought from somewhere else 1 month ago. "New chips" meaning ones i bought from ncix couple days ago.

    2 old chips in slot 1 and slot 3 5006mb/s

    2 new chips in slot 1 and slot 3 4600mb/s

    New chips from ncix.com(place i bought them from) have 8 chips per stick

    Old chips from other place has 16 chips per stick.

    1 new chip slot 1 3473 mb/s

    1 old chip slot 1 3908 mb/s

    all 4 slots taken old,new,old,new 3487mb/s

    These are on stock settings 1066mhz 5-5-5-15 2.2v



    What do you think?

  • User profile image
    axelriet

    >What do you think?

    The answer in in reply #2.

    Return the new chips for refund. Get more "old" chips.

  • User profile image
    mykemyk2008

    How can i make sure they will give me the same sticks though. It doesnt tell you on the box only on the sticks themselves. I didnt buy them off Crucial i bought them from an etailer. However I emailed Crucial and the company i bought them from and told them of my misfortune. Ill see what they say. Thanks for the help guys

  • User profile image
    RichardRudek

    mykemyk2008 wrote:

    2 old chips in slot 1 and slot 3 5006mb/s

    2 new chips in slot 1 and slot 3 4600mb/s

    New chips from ncix.com(place i bought them from) have 8 chips per stick

    Old chips from other place has 16 chips per stick.

    1 new chip slot 1 3473 mb/s

    1 old chip slot 1 3908 mb/s

    all 4 slots taken old,new,old,new 3487mb/s

    These are on stock settings 1066mhz 5-5-5-15 2.2v
     


    Clearly, those results confirm what ScanIAm said. But worse still, with the 4GB configuration, the memory is being run in single channel mode. Ouch.

    Yep, get 'em replaced. Hopefully, you've not been a victim of an earlier customer doing a swap. Otherwise, they may think your the one trying to scam them. [1]

    BTW, a quick look over the [crucial.com warranty page] seems to have worrying language where they state that any claim to warranty is only redeemable by the original purchaser. There's no mention about whether resellers are this original purchaser, rather than you.

    [1] I saw one person doing a contents swap at a warehouse pickup counter. He had the clerk collect one order, then suddenly remembered he had another order, and when they went to pick that, the mongrel performed his scam. When the clerk came back, he said he did want one of the items from the first order, and so the clerk put it pack into stock, without checking anything. Slick. Well, until I told the clerk when I was being served... Cool

  • User profile image
    Isshou

    mykemyk2008 wrote:
    So even though they are the same company, ram, speed, timings and size but they only have 8 chips instead of 16 chips on the sticks it means they arent identical and wont run properly??? I mean thats pretty much a scam. There is not other way to find out that they have 8 chips instead of 16 chips when you buy them


    There can be different configurations like 64x16 and 128x8 to achieve the total ram size, but 64x16 and 128x8 do behave differently, hence the discrepency in the access speed.

    This has always been true before it was 32x16 and 64x8 for 512mb sticks. More mb per chip means cheaper not better.

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