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AndyC AndyC
  • They might have well said...

    @kettch: Belfiore makes it pretty clear they think of convertibles as "laptop which occasionally get used as tablets" and from that point of view, many of the kludges that come along with the Windows desktop environment are passable. If you expect to mostly work on the desktop, then you probably overlook how the experience works the other way around ie as a "tablet that occasionally becomes a laptop"

    So things like the tray notification area being full of finger unfriendly icons is a pain. Metro apps appearing and permanently remaining on the taskbar is a pain  - seriously turn that option on in Windows 8.1, run through using 30/40 tablet apps as a tablet user would and then switch back to the desktop and try to clean up the mess - and a million and one other little points have reverted to the idea that it "works OK" for touch if you just slightly resize buttons even though this demonstrably didn't work in Windows 7.

    And the thing is, Desktop users should be the ones complaining about this more than anything, because if you can't get the convertible scenario to work you might as well abandon the entire concept and have a tablet edition that is entirely separate from the desktop/laptop version, which would allow you to avoid having to restrict the desktop at times to accommodate these devices. 

  • Windows 10, first thoughts.

    @Ian2: Yeah, I've noticed some occasional odd crashes so something isn't quite right there.

    @Proton2: Me too, the desktop IE is a lot more clunky and I've gotten used to the nice surfing experience on my Surface 2. I'm trying to give them a pass on the tablet side of things until that gets put in though (trying to use it as-is on a tablet would certainly be horrible)

  • They might have well said...

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote


    I don't want to go back to the days of Windows for Pen Computing with the desktop as the centerpiece for those devices.

    Judging by what they've announced so far, that's exactly what you're going to get though. It's pretty obvious at this point that the experience for convertible devices is going to be so thoroughly hobbled by the slavish devotion to the Windows 95 user interface that you have to wonder why they just don't dump the concept entirely and just continue Windows 8 (with the desktop entirely stripped out) for tablets and then just permanently ship the Windows 7 UI atop the current kernel for desktop systems.

  • Windows 10, first thoughts.

    So what do Niners think of the Windows 10 Tech Preview then? (I asumming most of us have installed it!)

    Having picked up a cheap Lenovo this afternoon and given it a bit of a spin, here are my initial thoughts:

    Cut + Paste in the command line - Nice, but I'd hoped for something a bit more Mouse friendly, as it seems to insist on you selecting text with the keyboard (unless you Mark old style). It's also a bit quirky in places, e.g. doing a CTRL-X does a Copy, rather than a Cut, which isn't really what I'd expect.

    Lack of window borders - Bit Mac-ified, the shadowing effect somewhat helps but I still think it makes it unnecessarily hard to see the edges of applications, I think I preferred solid borders.

    The Start Menu. Well, what's to say. As someone who uses lots of Modern apps, naturally it started off polluted with a huge list of "Install" options for every app I use or have just tried once, so required a lot of cleanup work first before it's even vaguely usable as a menu. In all likelihood I'll never do any more than search with it (as with Vista/7) so in that regards it's at least a big improvement over those by not constraining the end results as much and by integrating web search too.

    The lack of an easy "Fetch all my Modern apps" option was a pain in the butt too, since it basically meant going through the Start Menu clicking every entry just to kick off downloading of apps. Surely there has to be a better way than that?

    By far the most broken feature is the Virtual Desktop stuff though, it's got all sorts of quirky behaviour because (I suspect) it seems to be trying to maintain a single Taskbar across them all. This has the exciting side-effect that occasionally launching an app like Notepad can suddenly reconfigure your entire display, because you had Notepad open on another desktop and Windows takes that to mean you want to switch to it. Terrible, terrible UI. Let's hope that gets a major overhaul soon, although judging by the Continuum stuff, I think the Taskbar is in desperate need of a complete re-think anyway, so maybe that's already on the cards.

    Will be interested to see how things change as Continuum and other features arrive, but right now it feels much more of a step back than one forward.

  • Windows 10 Preview (Download Link - 1st Oct )

    , TexasToast wrote


    Unless there is something new that windows 10 does not have ,  I am not going to bother to look at it.   Touch screen support on server again? 

    Terminal Servers.

    The answer to literally every "Why does Windows Server have desktop feature X?"

    If you aren't using it as a Terminal Server, why do you even have the GUI installed?

  • It's called...

    , Bas wrote


    That's what I think. Note that they said that they want to upgrade "the majority of devices out there". That could well be a really roundabout way of saying "we won't upgrade the handful of ARM tablets out there."

    More likely that's a reference to there being no 32 bit release, so non 64 bit capable hardware is out. The fact it will run on phones pretty much guarantees at least some sort of ARM build.

  • What's with all the complaining about high DPI displays for Windows desktop?

    Sure, if you take the Apple approach and only support pixel resolutions that are exact multiples, it's an easier problem to solve. Windows has to support just about any resolution and pixel density you throw at it and still work because there are lots of devices and use cases out there where people have or need other resolutions. Not to mention that it's a pretty crappy solution anyway, text gets sharper but everything else just starts to look blocky and wastes the sharpness of the display (which is why apps tend to have their UI redone to work on retina iPad etc).

    And which Windows editions (other than Server where high dpi is mostly a non issue) aren't intended for movie watching?

  • async and lock

    , BitFlipper wrote


    Which audio related APIs require passing along more than a few parameters like length, IntPtr etc? The whole point of the benchmark is to show the overhead of a P/Invoke call. The audio APIs are pretty simple so I don't understand your point.


    Correct, the intention was to make it sync, hence the lack of "...Async" at the end.


    DoSomething and DoSomethingAsync is purely used to show the overhead of making a non-async vs async/await call. We need to compare an async op to something. If you don't have a non-async baseline, how will you know what async adds to the picture?

    Also I have shown how the async/event pattern is an order of magnitude faster than async/await pattern. You can have IO with much lower overhead than what you can possibly get with await/async.

    I'm not sure how your conclusion is that my tests don't show anything useful.

    1) When using the audio APIs, your entire audio data has to be marshalled. PInvoke can be very efficient in some circumstances, but its not free. Trying to benchmark the impact of marshalling with different data structures will give you a false impression of the impact.

    2) Your missing the point, the inner workings of DoSomething are an inherently synchronous operation. The inner workings of audio IO are not synchronous. The compiler can do different things with your example than it can real APIs. To make your benchmark even vaguely comparable, you'd need to do something asynchronous inside DoSomething and then make DoSomething a synchronous wrapper around that.

    3) Your Async/Await example isn't calling a real Projected asynchronous API, so it's adding all the overhead of the Task class, whereas real Projected APIs use the IAsyncOperation COM interface and the Projection takes care of making it look the same to the language. Again, it's an Apples/Oranges comparison.

    You need to actually measure what you are really doing, instead of creating examples that are only superficially similar.

  • async and lock

    QueryPerformanceCounter only has to marshall a long and a bool and only in one direction, which basically amounts to no work at all. That's not meaningful in a context where you're having to marshall structured data. 

    Also "DoSomething" in your benchmark is an entirely synchronous operation, but IO on Windows is never synchronous. Any "synchronous" API call would still ultimately be wrapping an asynchronous event, that's just fundamental to how the OS works. If you're going to benchmark something, you actually need to benchmark the thing you're trying to do, not something entirely different.

  • async and lock

    , androidi wrote

    @AndyC: You can use Wasapi in C# through the Naudio wrapper on desktop clr. I don't know if you can do that with the Phone/RT in a store app though?


    Wouldn't know, but the WASAPI API is available in Store apps so I guess it's possible.