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Bas Bas It finds lightbulbs.
  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    I have no idea. I'm a Star Wars kind of guy. Tongue Out

  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    Massif wrote:

    If you want to put it another way, I don't believe in a soul - so what's the difference between Me pre-tranport and me post? (Except of course position.)

    Consciousness. Me pre-transport's consciousness ends at the transport. Me post-transport's consciousness starts at the transport, but he thinks he has always had it.

    In other words, the person looking through your eyes is gone. You are not going to look through the other you's eyes.

    Putting it differently, let's forget about the disintegration and death. Let's say you're going on a trip to Paris (and for the sake of argument say that you've never been there before). Right before getting on the plane, a scientist stops you and creates a perfect clone of you. Your clone thinks he's you, and you're a perfect match. Then they put you in their holding cell, and put your clone on the plane to Paris.

    What will you benefit from this? Will you be experiencing the sweet life in Paris? No, you'll be chained to the wall of a holding cell. You won't have the experience of being in Paris, so what is the point of sending a clone?

    Of course, this is all highly theoretical, and my reasoning probably breaks a couple-dozen laws of physics, but still. It's a spooky idea. Tongue Out

  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    ScanIAm wrote:
    Even if a new guy is created to replace your current guy, the new guy will think he's you, act like you, and to the rest of us he'll be you.

    But YOU won't be you, anymore.  You'll have been torn apart, atom by atom.

    You'd be giving up your life for another being who would then take your life over

    This is exactly what I meant, only in far fewer and far clearer words. Tongue Out

    ScanIAm wrote:

    And you might (rightly?) feel guilty for killing someone every time you jumped....

    Well, you won't, because you're dead. But the new you might feel guilty if he was told that this happened. He couldn't 'know' from experiencing it, obviously.

    If I knew that this was going to happen beforehand, I'd never get into the machine. Because the whole point was that -I- would be going to Earth 2, not somebody who is a carbon copy of me.  Tongue Out I guess I'm never going to travel further than Mars...

    Unless.. Wormholes.

  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    Massif wrote:
    That's the clone situation, and as far as I'm concerned both the original and the clone are me - but they're not the same person, not connected in any way. In the analogy both audiences have watched a complete film, and it's the film they came in to see, they never noticed any difference.

    But that was my point. The audience (i.e. everybody, -including- the clone himself) will not notice any difference. It -is- a different person, as you say, but nobody notices, including the new person himself.

    As per your analogy, they're not the same film. They're just two films that happen to have the same beginning.

    Let's say we have a film that's two hours long, and run it in a projector. After one hour, time freezes and a second piece of film is instantly created that has the same first hour as the original. We have two different movies, that just happen to have the same beginning.
    Now the new piece of film is put in a second projector, and the first projector, including the original film with its original ending, is destroyed. Time unfreezes and projector number two starts playing.

    Now, the audience won't notice any difference. They have no idea that the movie originally had a different second half and was switched halfway, and run on a different projector. In fact, if they rewind it, they'll see the beginning is exactly how they remembered it. The world is entirely normal, except for the original movie, which is destroyed with nobody realising it.

  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    davearkley wrote:
    If I step in and get disintegrated, my consciousness will end, because I'm dead. Whatever is created on the other end will think it is me, and so will everyone else, but that doesn't help me, because I'm dead.

    Whatever is created at the other end will be you. Same hardware (identical), same memories, same diseases, same wetware. It IS you.

    So you didn't die, just shuffled to some other mortal coil.

    That's not true. Because if that perfect clone was created, but without disintegrating me, there'd be two me's. But I wouldn't have the memories my clone is going to have, nor vice-versa. As soon as my clone is called into existance, it'd become a different person than me.

    Massif wrote:
    See, I'm genuinely not so sure that - given a clone has complete continuity - you are dead at all. I guess I don't see anything special about "me" that won't continue to exist in the clone.

    Here was my thought experiment which led me to this:

    If all electrical activity in my brain is halted, temporarily for a short period of time, and restarted again - am I dead? I'd say no, my memories and personality continue so I'm still alive.

    However if I'm in a train and the same thing happens, all the molecules have moved a non-trivial (for a molecule) distance. Am I dead in this case?

    So if all electrical activity in my brain is halted, and then recommenced in a perfect replica of my brain am I still dead? There's nothing special about the matter which makes up my brain, so I figure I'm just as alive as I ever was.

    How do you know that you're the same person you were when your brain halted for a split-second? Maybe you just -think- you are. Maybe the real you died, and the new you thinks he's the old one.

    But, lets say you create a perfect replica of yourself, without actually killing yourself. Are you alive in two bodies? Can you see through both pairs of eyes? If your clone goes on to live a completely different life, is he still you?

  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    Drat, I still haven't seen The Prestige. But this makes me wonder even more.

    Massif wrote:
    Is it lethal if there's continuity of personality and memories?

    That's the trick, isn't it? It's not -me- continuing with my personality and memories, some clone is.

    If I step in and get disintegrated, my consciousness will end, because I'm dead. Whatever is created on the other end will think it is me, and so will everyone else, but that doesn't help me, because I'm dead.

    Should I see the day that a teleporter becomes a common transportation device, I think I'll choose to refuse to enter it, much like people in the old days were afraid of cars and escalators. I'd rather be old-fashioned and paranoid than dead.

  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    I always wondered. What if teleportation meant that you would disintegrate and die, but a perfect clone of yourself (including memories and personality) came out on the other end? How would you warn people that teleportation is lethal?

  • 'Second Earth' found, 20 light years away

    cheong wrote:
    Let wait until scientists find out how we can travel in the speed of (ly/h).

    Let's not be too hasty. Let's focus on just lightspeed for now. Tongue Out

  • Fred: You Voted, We Listened

    Huh, great. If I had known that the poll would be closed by now, I would've voted no earlier, because I still don't have a clue why Fred deserves to go more than anyone else on the waiting list.

  • Vista Help: Guided help - "Do it ​automatical​ly"

    Whoa, I never even noticed that before. I should spend more time in Windows Help.

    At first I thought it was just, like, a little demo. Until I realised that it was interactive. Very nice.