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DeathByVisualStudio DeathBy​VisualStudio If we all believed in unicorns and fairies the world would be a better place.
  • File management? Shove it!

    , Bas wrote

    I just checked with the latest version of WLPG and it's still there. I just got the slashes mixed up. If you tag a photo with the tag "Fus/Ro/Dah" then in the lefthand pane under "descriptive tags" it adds a tag called "Fus" with an arrow in front of it (if you hover). Expand it and you'll see a child tag called Ro, and that contains a tag called Dah.

    That's pretty cool. I'd have to echo spiv's point that it's not very discoverable. It's also going to require education on user's part (again not for free). The other million dollar question is if this is a "standards" way of using tags or is this just for WLPG? I hope Microsoft has used this on all of their products and provides an OS level set of APIs for third-parties to follow so there is some consistency like there is with the file system.

  • File management? Shove it!

    , kettch wrote


    ...but it doesn't matter if I click on Disneyland>2012>Vacations or 2012>Disneyland>Vacations or Vacations>2012>Vacations.

    You seem to be inferring a UI that I just don't see in WLPG. Clue me in please.

    In any case it regardless of folders vs. tags it seems like we end up back at the same place: the app has to have a good implementation that is helpful to the user to leverage the metaphor(s) in play and the user needs some training. IOW, there is no free lunch.

  • File management? Shove it!

    , Bas wrote

    I'm not talking about just search, I'm talking organization and visual discovery just as well. There is no lack of a real visual hierarchy like you suggest. You can tag those pictures as Vacations\Paris and get that same hierarchy you got with the folders. If you tag another set with Vacations\London you can find all your vacation pictures by navigating to the Vacations tag, or just the Paris ones by navigating to Vacations\Paris.

    Maybe I'm on meth but there is no understanding of a parent\child relationship with tags. The tag "Vacation\Paris" is no different than then tag "VacationParis". It's a single tag with no hierarchy and no way to visually represent it as one other than a singular category (or folder) of "Vacation\Paris".

    I've got all my photo's tagged that way and navigating to the right ones works exactly like navigating the file system. If I want to find my photo's from the Dominican Republic I can open the "events" tag, open the "2009" tag beneath it, then the "vacation" tag beneath that and then the "Dominican Republic" tag beneath that. Exactly like how it would happen if I were using subfolders to organize my photo's instead of tags, beause tags have a proper hierarchy just as folders do.

    Is this with Windows Live Photo Gallery? I see no way of establishing such a hierarchy with tags. They're just flat text with no associations to each other.

    If you don't want to cluster-f the organization of your photo's, just look at the tag hierarchy and see the system you came up with. It's just as easy to cluster-f the organization of your photos by putting them in folders called "Paris Vacation" or "France Vacation" if you don't look at your folder tree either.

    The difference for me is that typically I "tag" photos by entering text as I import them rather than importing or moving them "to" a folder that I see in the folder picker dialog. I can't find a similar experience with tags that help you put things in the right place.


  • VS2012 Express for Windows Desktop Applications

    @Sven Groot: My intellisense is instantaneous -- even on the tablet I got at Build. My only gripe with Eclipse is when dragging windows around it sometimes resets the video; it's impossible to move tool windows over RDP.

  • File management? Shove it!

    If we're just talking about search then I'd agree that folders and tags provide the same functionality. I'm not referring just to the search aspect. I'm referring to organization and visual discovery. For example if a user creates the following folder structure "\Vacation\Paris" they have a visual representation of their organization. However using when using tags such as "Paris" and "Vacation" that does not infer the hierarchy of "Vacation\Paris" In a visual display you get the same pictures listed twice; once under "Vacation" and then again under "Paris". If you tag the pictures "Vacation Paris" all you're getting is a simple grouping of the pictures around that tag and no true hierarchy. As additional pictures are imported there's nothing visual for the user to follow (like with a folder hierarchy) that would prevent the user from tagging their pictures with "Paris Vacation" or "France Vacation". Because of a lack of a real visual hierarchy (where the parent-child relationship is displayed) it's easy to cluster-f the organization of your photos.

  • File management? Shove it!

    @Bas: Folders are known to the user (visual tree); tags are discovered. Some apps can make tags more discoverable (i.e. auto-complete in a search box, basis for "categories" like organization) but they still don't provide the tangible nature of folders (i.e. the ability to just go to the files you want). Also there's the argument of the hierarchical nature of folders which can be approximated with tags but don't necessarily provide the structure that a file system does. Don't get me wrong; both can go horribly wrong I the user doesn't use either folders or tags in some organized fashion hence why users will still lose stuff and need education on how to best use their tools.

  • File management? Shove it!

    @ScanIAm: Maybe I misunderstood your quip about google but I totally agree with you. Tag & Search isn't going to save us from stupid, lazy user. User education is still required along with great apps that assist a user in managing their data. Folders, tag & search, great apps -- we need them all.

  • File management? Shove it!

    @ScanIAm: Or doesn't work just like my SharePoint example hence vaporware...Bad results due to bad search terms or too many results returned. I think my GF said it best when I tried to teach her about tagging photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery: "Why do they make it so hard? I don't want to have to tag all my pictures only to have to search for my pictures later. I just want to go to the folder that I put them in." She hates computers BTW.

  • Great laugh to start the week out on...

    The bar has been raised since the tweet choir. From the Norwegian Developer's Conference...

    Microsoft sure knows how to party. Best part is about half-way through. Here's the highlights from NeoWin.

    Whoever is lining up the talent for these things should consider bringing back the Teletubies.

    Edit: Nice there's a ying & yang to life sometimes: Cee Lo Green opened for Microsoft's new store in NJ. Not bad Microsoft.

  • File management? Shove it!

    , AndyC wrote

    @DeathByVisualStudio: Sharepoint is little more than a filesystem in that regards, it suffers exactly the same issues that any generic, user managed hierarchical filestore suffers. The problems you're seeing with users being unable to find things there are exactly the ones I'm talking about.

    Oh I get it. You're talking about vaporware; where content is created and with no user education nor input files magically are available in the context the user wants them.