Awesome! Got mine on both accounts (though I dunno what I'm going to use it for). Thanks fanbaby.
How so? Manufacturers follow the profit or they go out of business. Seems like this was a consumer demand (or lack there of) issue.
You're making an assumption here that the only reason Apple and Microsoft gave users the ability to close was solely for the scenario where the app breaks in a way that the OS can't detect.
Er, no, you really didn't. Because every suggestion, including "make it configurable", is based on the premise that people either only use Metro apps (thus won't see the desktop taskbar filling up with every app they ever use) or they'll only use the desktop and will thus dutifully treat any Metro app they do run as if it were a desktop application and close them.
Except some of us do both. In fact the whole point of a unified tablet/PC interface is to support exactly that kind of scenario.
Hmmm... seems like I addressed your specific use case:
And if you're in some sort of corner case where you want Windows to close Windows store apps and leave no trace as it does today then they can make the behavior configurable. Everybody wins.
Sorry if you misunderstood.
And, for the record, "make it configurable" is the worst possible solution because it's essentially accepting that the whole concept doesn't work. It doesn't solve the problem, it just let's you choose which version of broken you want.
You're right; it just let's you choose which version you want. I'll just have to disagree with you on describing what many people have asked for as "broken".
Yes they are. I am. If you take away the only real advantages of Store apps, by enforcing the desktop paradigm on them, then they just become entirely redundant. They're simply less capable desktop apps and you might just as well get rid of them entirely.
Oh well then pardon me. So when W8.1U1 comes out you'll be saying Windows Store apps are dead?
It remains to be seen what gets added back and quite how broken the end result is. The fact it gets into a release doesn't necessarily make it good, or else you'd never b*tch about Windows 8 in the first place.
Well I'm certainly not going to say it will be "good" for you. In fact it might be quite horrible having to swallow all of that crow.
I do think that many people will enjoy the improvements Microsoft is making to both W8.1U1 and WP8.1. I'm just so glad Microsoft was able to get past thinking like you and actually listening to its customers.
@fanbaby:While the article is old I'd agree with your original premise. :)
I already answered this. Go back and read my posts.
The taskbar forces the metaphor that apps stay "open" until you physically do something to "close" them. This is entirely the opposite of the logical way you use Metro apps, which have no concept of being "open" or "closed". I don't know how anyone can fail to see such an obvious flaw, short of simply blindly assuming that all applications should work like desktop apps traditionally do - at which point you might just as well rip out support for Metro apps entirely and turn everything back into Windows 7.
Drop the hyperbole. No one is suggesting they rip out Windows Store apps.
Yes I know how to swipe down, but I don't normally in exactly the same way people don't worry about closing apps on their iPad. This is a GOOD thing. It's one of the reasons that the iPad is so successful, because good UI design is about preventing the user from having to do any unnecessary "chores" that distract from what they're actually trying to do. Things like managing open applications, organizing the file system etc are all examples of such chores. Your "solution", along with any that rely on the user closing Metro applications, is just bad UI because it's adding chores to a users workflow, not removing them.
You're ignoring the fact that the iPad doesn't have a desktop mode with a taskbar and said users of that mode typically are using a mouse & keyboard. Talk about not considering scenarios...
And yes, not everything has to show on the taskbar. And you could make all Metro apps not appear on the taskbar. Which is what happens right now and doesn't suffer from this kind of schizophrenic problem. But that's not what you said you wanted. And when you start having them appear on the Taskbar, you have to have solutions for every possible scenario, not just the ones that you're apparently considering.
Windows is pretty schizophrenic when it has some apps that appear on the taskbar and others that don't. I think we've provided solutions to all of scenarios you've brought up right up to making the behaviors configurable. What next? The old argument that Microsoft can't do these things because of limited resources? Seems like they're doing just fine adding some of the window chrome back to Windows Store apps in W8.1U1 as well as lining up WP with the same methods for closing apps.
I think it's the simple puzzle-reward stim that if a game hits just right they are a success. The same could be said for a plain-old real-world physical puzzle. It's the same "ahhhh" you get when you place a piece. I'm sure it hits the pleasure centers of the brain which eggs you on for more. Kind of like The Game episode from STNG. Imagine how easy it would be to take over the world today...
Sure but my Start menu on that display I mentioned earlier has 21 items, the exact same as the number of very large tiles I can fit. Large tiles are 8.6 times the size of Start menu links, and my screen is 4.7 times the width of the Start menu, meaning I could in theory have a screen that is 1.8 times the width before Fitts's Law says it's worse. That would give me 38 large tiles.
That's not even mentioning that I can fit 4 times that number of medium tiles, and 16 times that number of small tiles (of course then Fitts's Law reduces their distance by a factor of 2 and 4 respectively... you could fit about 60 small tiles within the space of my Start menu).
You're ignoring the organizational potential you have with the start menu. Apps in most cases provide an automatic hierarchy of folders that makes finding what you want simpler than scanning over 60 icons.
1. Pinning to the Start menu was also an opt-in solution, so there's no difference there.
These are not the same. For the start screen under W8.1 you must pin the app to the start screen for it to be available there. Pinning on the start menu is optional as the app is already available in the "all programs" sub menu. Now you could say the app list off of the start screen is the same as the "all programs" sub menu but it's not. You can sort the app list but you can't organize it preciously as you like it as you can with the "all programs" sub menu. Of course you could say that organizational aspect is now handled by the start screen itself but:
- It lacks the organizational depth that the "all programs" sub menu has. Folders can be nested whereas the start screen tiles can only be grouped.
- Both the pinned items on the start menu and the "all programs" sub menu can be organized as users desire whereas with their new counterparts only the start screen can be organized is a similar but less detailed way.
2. They took away the MRU list. This is what I missed the most in W8 and I agree that this should come back. I understand that in 8.1 you can get something similar by choosing the "by most used" sort in the Apps list (which is good for desktop users who probably use the Apps list as a default) but I would like it as an option in the main Start screen for tablet users too.
To that last point, really I'd just like for Start screen groups to be able to represent more than just ordinary tiles. Lists (such as MRU), a group for common settings toggles, etc... those would be nice.
I agree with you on those points. Even touch/mobile users would benefit from MRUs, toggles, etc. Now that feels a lot more like Android which oddly enough some are calling the new "Windows".
Sure. I can also tell you where you can find your head smart guy.
FWIW I meant for Windows the "state of the world today" is that the principle users of Windows are desktop users with mouse and keyboard.