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DouglasH DouglasH Just Causual
  • IronRuby dead

    Bass said:
    rhm said:

    How do you do WPF development in CRuby? You could with IronRuby. You could mix and match C# and Ruby code in your ASP.NET projects. You could have a no effort Ruby scripting API for your app. This kind of stuff is very difficult to do with the C runtime.


    I don't really even see much of a reason to use CRuby. JRuby is a fairly complete Ruby implementation. But it has full Java interop. And get this, it actually runs Ruby _faster_ then the original implementation. IronRuby had a lot of potential. It could have been the premier Ruby implementation with just a little more effort on Microsoft's part. IMO.


    Dropping these languages really detracts from the whole "one runtime to rule them all" mantra. Well maybe that mantra never really existed. Maybe at some point Microsoft will change CLR to stand for C# Language Runtime. Smiley

    Isn't that true just from the codedom, samples released.  


    Think the best statement I have heard for the state of the codedom,  it is the best platform for creating code as long as it is exactly C#,  even in the case of generating VB.net. 


    My Gut feeling is that within 2 versions F# will no longer be a language available in VS.  Given the removal of Jscript, in the recent past. apparent removal of support of the Iron languages. 


    The sad part is that there will have to be a fundamental change of the BCL (immutable types, Isolation, actor based passing? instead of tightly coupled method passing) to support the coming multiprocessor revolution.  (talking 12 core or more)   So I do see significant changes coming in the near futre to all the base languages.  



  • IronRuby dead

    exoteric said:
    Charles said:

    He's reflecting on the fact that F# has a dynamic feel to it due to its strong support for type-inference.

    And there are strong hints that we may see this in C# in the future.


    I personally believe it is a huge waste of time to repeat twice when setting up a variable when Compilers have long

    be efficient at inferring type in 90% of the cases.



  • .NET version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12...

    mstefan said:
    turrican said:

    Nothing to do with the language per se, I just don't really like how functional programming "feels", if that makes sense. I guess it's the result of years of indoctination with procedural programming. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

    is that because Functional programming feels like real math and less objecty?? but is largely more composable if the problem is broken down properly.


    BTW, SQL is largely a functional language. as well as xslt. for that matter most query languages. 


    It has been said that those that learn functional programming become better procedural programmers, namely because they become better in breaking up the problem in more composable patterns.,



  • XPS gets a unusual friend Google Chrome OS

    ManipUni said:
    xgamer said:


    I think nobody cares. They all use metrics like speed, CPU usage, and ACID[x] to test the "quality" of their browsers. That's why you haven't seen browser UI change very much and why quality of life features are never addressed. The only reason we got built in web-search boxes was the HUGE amount of money to be made.

    Well how many actually print to dead trees these days??


    Although that is a huge complaint I do have about HTML5. 



  • HTML5 questions

    ZippyV said:
    joechung said:

    Will HTML5 then be XML compliant?

    the answer to that question is yes and no.

    HTML5 is defineing both a xml and a html version of the standard.  If it is delivered as XML then it must be xml compatable and that is backwards compatable with HTML unfortantly they are also defineing a HTML version that is not XML compliant.

    Clear as mud??


  • HTML5 questions

    exoteric said:
    TommyCarlier said:

    There is the issue of self-canibalization: since Silverlight is now Microsofts pendant to Flash and these media engines support vector graphics, video, animation, etc., it becomes a question of whether to support both fronts equally (Silverlight and the browser) or let one stay ahead of the other. In a sense, if all browsers started supporting vector graphics and video, that might dampen the evolution of these plugged-in engines.

    It's probably fair to say that Microsoft prefers the Silverlight architechture to the W3C jigsaw puzzle, otherwise I'd expect them to fully support SVG, SMIL, etc. There's another reason for this preference and that's the natural glide path from Silverlight into WPF with Visual Studio and Expression Blend being the premier development tools for these APIs.

    On the other hand it's probably also fair to say that a certain lesson has been learned in that it is not wise to lag too far behind other browsers. So there will be some form of co-evolution, probably - with Silverlight being the clear priority...

    In fairness, IE supports or supported native vector graphics via VML and? HTML+TIME - although maybe not in the IE8 engine; I heard CSS expressions (I forget the precise name) were also phased out - but they were proprietary anyway.

    I see plugins as a playground for new developments that can be rapidly deployed to the Web (depending on the update experience of the particular plugin).

    I believe you state the specific weakness of the w3 specs.

    HTML 4.0x xhtml 1.0, plus mathml plus svg plus smil do not work together.

    SVG and HTML are top level languages (which in some instances can become sub languages.)

    The issue becomes how does the browser interact with all of those specs? on the same page in the multiple domains. 

    Opera so far has gone the furtherst in implementing a browser that handles it.  But the primary browser needs to be XML engine that handles the poorly speced 4.0x. if it starts as a html page. or handle html and mathml islands if it starts as svg.

    Since css hasn't been completed let to work in that domain it gets more interesting.

    That said I believe that the more correct approach would be to define the underlying browser technologies. that handle any language to implement on it.

    IOW xHTML, SVG MATHML would all sub class under a super canvas class. But I doubt we wil ever see such a beast coming from the highly political design by committee world of w3.

    IMO HTML 5 is already a failure although it will take us closer to actually defining the browser and its fallbacks.


  • HTML5 questions

    AndyC said:
    joechung said:

    And both of those are a fantastic example of exactly why Microsoft should omit support for unfinished standards from IE, because every web developer who ever dealt with IE6 should know just how painful it can be when something was implemented based on a half finished version of a spec that subsequently changed.

    in that MS has already failed then. since they have already implemented some of the more stable parts of HTML 5 in IE 8.  primarily the database features of HTML 5.

  • HTML5 questions

    joechung said:

    I like HTML 5, but I think HTML 4.01 is just fine.  CSS needs fixing more than HTML does.

    hmm, I about cringed on the statement that html 4.0x is fine that css needs more fixing.

    I will just state it this way, (and the html working group agrees) there isn't a single browser that fully implements html 4.0x, and there will never be any that can because there are several areas in the spec that contridict each other. There is also many areas that are left to interpetation. there is no set rules for error handleing and error fall back. etc etc.

    HTML 4.0x and the long line of underspecified specs before it are the Primary reason for the html 5 spec and its wider definition of how a browser should handle different aspects. and has been Jokenly stated that it will release in 2020.


  • Microsoft rebrands ​Hotmail/MSN/​Live/.Net/​Microsoft Search (Again)

    ManipUni said:
    wkempf said:

    The word "Google" means nothing. Just like "Kumo" means nothing. While "Bing" does already have a meaning...

    Kumo means "spider" or "cloud" from Japanese.

    And Virtual Earth is the first announced to move to the Bing Brand,  Bing Maps for Enterprise.

  • interview the codedom and t4 teams

    with the release of vs 2008 we now have 2 code generation technologies in vs. 

    Codedom which is primarily used in conjunction with the visual designers. 

    T4 is being used by EF, MVC and a few other teams.  T4 seems to be less language dependant.

    Luke Hoban gave a talk at lang.net about the productization of F# and one of the reasons of not implementing designers at least in v4 was the Codedom

    some to the effect that Codedom is design to accept any language that is exactly C# and makes assumptions in the platform to that effect.

    The questions I would have is are there any plans to make codedom and/or t4 more language agnostic so that code generation can target more languages easier??

    the second is tooling support for t4, although there are free tools out there that work with .tt files

    and open the floor for any other questions. but it would be an interesting discussion from the code generation standpoint from the various designers implemented in VS. from Cider, EF, etc etc.

    Thanks Douglas