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  • Window container support on client

    "Each task maps to a set of Linux processes running in a container on a machine [62]. The vast majority of the Borg workload does not run inside virtual machines (VMs), 1 There are a few exceptions for each of these relationships. because we don't want to pay the cost of virtualization. Also, the system was designed at a time when we had a considerable investment in processors with no virtualization support in hardware."

    Source: The borg paper.

    Google reveling a little of what it was up to a few years ago. The rest of the industry is looking in awe and quietly taking notes,



    EDIT: I guess that what didn't make sense to me (before looking at the paper) didn't make sense to Google either ;)

  • Window container support on client

    So, is it a VM per container or VM per many containers?

  • Window container support on client

    , evildictait​or wrote


    The container provides the deployment abstraction and the VM provides the isolation. Containers are fundamentally not about virtualization, and not trying to be "an efficient VM".

    I disagree. I don't think that Google, who more or less started using and promoting containers, runs containers in a VM. It make no sense. COntainers bring you isolation.

    Havine said that, i'm not saying that the deployment side of things isn't important, after all they are called containers :)

    Containers brought you OS independence (in the linux distributions/cloud providers sense, not Windows), and that is great for deployment

  • Window container support on client

    , evildictait​or wrote

    I get that bashing Microsoft is a fun trend in these forums, but I really can't understand why letting small companies choose to deploy to server environments more reliably, cheaply and effectively is controversial. If you want to deploy to Windows Server 2016, you can now use containers. If you prefer not to, don't. Simple.

    Where did you get any bashing? I was just trying to understand. And I think I do. ANother TLDR:

    1. WIndows containers are great just don't expect any magic interoperability


  • Window container support on client

    , PerfectPhase wrote


    A single container running on a single VM host OS, will probably, by unmeasurably small factor, run slower than if the app was deployed directly on host OS

    That's the beauty of containers:

    1. no VM involved
    2. only 1 OS (kernel) running
    3. an app running in a container is running directly on the (only) kernel
  • Window container support on client

    My TLDR:

    1) Containers run native (binary) APIs spps much more efficiently then VMs. Linux containers are linux apps (posix ;)) and, soon, Windows containers will be Windows apps (Win32 ;)). Of course you can run a stack on top of that, like a Java JVM, dotnet CLR, and Node JavaScript.

    2) You will not be able to take a WIndows container and run it under Linux without a Windows VM on top of linux (which means license?), in which case it would make more sense (to me) to run it directly on Windows (cut the middleman all together).

    3) Many apps, for example mysql, nodejs, and the CLR, have binaries for Linux and Windows. With these you'll be able to deploy to Linux or Windows (you'll need a matching container image of course). Choosing where to deploy will depends on many factors. I think it'll depend mainly on ( a ) maturity of the support on that platform, ( b ) what you use in your shop, and to a much lesser degree ( c ) on performance.

    4) A big unknown today is the level of maturity of the CLR on Linux. And to the level of how much will Microsoft invest in it compared to WIndows. Only time will tell.

    4+) If the Linux CLR (and/or mono) reaches par with windows, ms can pretty much shut down its server department ;)

  • Window container support on client

    , cbae wrote

    Nothing is "written in" Win32. It's not a language.

    OK Then let's try for the last time:

    Windows containers run apps written against some subset of the Win32 api. If you don't understand this or want to quibble about choice of words, i cannot help anymore.

  • Window container support on client

    @cbae: Oh I see where you're coming from now. It's like i'll be claiming that Windows Container apps are actually JavaScript because many will use node. 

    Windows containers run apps written in some subset of Win32. Period.

    Your point that most apps will be dotnet is irrelevant. You can also run Java apps and node.js apps. Why do you include that as container api? Its not.

  • Window container support on client

    It seems we are talking past each other. 

    , cbae wrote


    You're conflating how containers are going to be implemented with how applications running inside a container are going to implemented.


    An app to be run in a container will use a subset of the Win32 API. or am I conflating?

    "Containers create environments for server-based application stacks. On the Windows side, those applications are of the ASP.NET, WCF, or BizTalk variety. These are all .NET-based technologies. Win32 doesn't even come into the picture."

    That's a total misunderstanding of containers. Can I create a C++ app to run in a container? What's the API?

  • Window container support on client

    , evildictait​or wrote


    Yes. Both Google and Microsoft deploy what amount to cross-OS "containers" in production.

    What's "what amounts to" amount to?

    How can Google use windows containers when they are so new?