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figuerres figuerres ???
  • are degrees worth anything ?

    , spivonious wrote

    @cheong: #2 the interviewer was probably not technical and thought SQL92 meant MS SQL Server 92, meaning that you're stuck in the past and have no experience with modern DBs.

    #1 is just rude.

     

     

    I have a BS in Comp Sci, and if someone asked me about red-black trees today I wouldn't even know where to start. That was almost 15 years ago and I haven't used it since.

    I think bass is saying that if you have a fresh grad that some of the normal course work related stuff should be fresh to them and a fair question.

    yeah ask for my old gpa from 20 years back and no way would I recall and it's not relevant today.

  • are degrees worth anything ?

    , cheong wrote

    *snip*

    I also have no degree, and I'm thinking that it'd just be "luck" on what people interviewing you.

    Here are two of my less pleasant interview experiences in the past:

    1) Apparently their HR overlooked my resume to appoint me for interview of a post that requires degree. I reread the job AD and think they're looking for people with experience too so I attended the interview. When the interviewer enters the interview room after I filled their application form, he just said something like "Sorry this post is for degree holders only. You can leave now." without even "try" to conduct the interview. On the good side, at least they're not giving me false hope...

    2) When I was interviewed for post of programmer in HP, after the interviewer listened my self introduction, he asked "This job requires you to code with Oracle database. Did you have any experience on Oracle before?" and I replied "Although I know Oracle has it's join syntax (like the "(+" etc.), I really cannot say I have job experience on that. All I can tell you is I can write queries in SQL92 syntax and it should run fine in all major database" And he immediately show he have no interest on me at the point. Who knows SQL92 will be announced to be the first class citizen just a few weeks later? //shrug

    Just want to tell you that for some people, if your qualification and experience does not exactly match their preference, you don't worth a dime to them.

    it happens I know and I have been in that kind of spot.

    but most of the time a good history of getting things done and a good write up will get them to look past the lack of a degree.  But yes there are snobs and such out there...

    I have had more than one boss with a degree who found I was as well versed as them or better.

    and with my I know where a lot of the tech comes from, sometimes it helps in ways you never expect.

    I am talking about things like the link from Windows back to CP/M for example. or the x86 cpu from the pc to the modern x64 / x86 systems.

    or how modems and fax machines are related ...

  • are degrees worth anything ?

    , eddwo wrote

    I'm sad. I have a degree, but it isn't great, as I was doing it part time and very slowly at 2 modules a year. I've been working since I was 19, so it's 15 years of experience, or sort of, I think I ought to be pretty hot stuff by now, but I've been kind of burned out for the last 5 years or so, so I'm not sure if that's really helped much.

    I'm not applying for a job where anyone expects you to have X,Y,Z credentials and experience listed on LinkedIn etc. before they'll even talk to you. So many people claiming to be vastly more qualified than they actually are in so many things, when they mostly seem so clueless. I'd just want to talk to someone face to face, not get shuffled around in a pile of overly-inflated resumes. 

    The degree was useful, in terms of content anyway, more than in terms of showing anyone else that I had the right bit of paper. I think that's what is supposed to count, at least in more technical fields. I'd done basic sort algorithms and things in secondary school, starting in QBasic, then Pascal, but I'd only begun to scratch the surface of Delphi before being asked to do coursework in Java without having the OOP background. Anyway the modules covered more advanced algorithms, logic, compilers (useful for understanding the background of Linq Expression Tree building bits), operating systems, databases, XML, symbolic AI (yay Prolog!), neural networks (actually I somehow managed to end up doing neural networks modules 3 times, so yes I know about perceptrons and back-propagation, not that I think I'll ever use it) etc. so I have a lot of grounding in a wide range of theories, and some worked examples. (I managed to get a mini-lisp type language off the ground, using expression trees as the back end, including creating recursive function definitions on the fly with that famous y-combinator thingy, so I must have had my head somewhat in the game at one point).

    I still get stuck doing mostly run of the mill C# Winforms bits nowadays.

    I think years of experience with competent senior mentors would go an awful lot further than any number of bits of paper, or just getting to work on a moderately well factored existing codebase with a few old hands around to explain the design rationale. Other people seem to think I'm really knowledgeable, but compared to the more well-know developers I don't think I could code my way out of a wet paper bag if my life depended on it, to use a somewhat confusing metaphor. 

    People are saying I should get into management, so perhaps I'm officially past it, maybe the money would be better, but I didn't really want to be one of them PHBs, I sort of wanted to be a greybeard eventually..

    I don't think I'm that old yet, or at least I don't feel it. I can't really keep up though, being expected to learn new technology stacks at the rate they seem to be being churned out nowadays (You now want me to pick up MVC, angular.js, CSS3, and HTML5 in the next two weeks? wha?), it seems insane, and the time just seems to fly by me so fast as well. 

    I still fondly remember the days when the only way to write pretty iPhone apps was with iui.js, and now we're onto Swift 3.0 and iOS10? I also seem to recall telling my mobile applications (Java MIDP era.) lecturer, just the other day, that there was going to be this exciting new mobile operating system from Google which was to be called Android, and we know how well that turned out. (Hmm, was that really all the way back in 2007?).

    Help! ;)

     

    I suspect that you need some help with how to re-write the resume and your cover letter ....

    that and some advice and practice on how to talk the interview.

    part of it is who you are talking to for the interview and part of it is what the paper you give them says about what you have done and where you want to be going.

    I have a huge amount of trenches experience and no degree but I say that in a way that also lets them know that I have the chops of the degree and that I have the ability to talk to anyone at any level.

    for example I have worked with accountants and know the rules they work by, I have also worked with folks with no tech but  make them comfortable with using the systems and that I can "speak English" so to speak.

    a clear statement of your interest in new tech and learning and working on the implementation can also clue them in that you are still wanting to stay active and not be a manager.

    some management will be asked as you have time in the field and that will not go away.

  • are degrees worth anything ?

    , spivonious wrote

    So many universities' comp sci departments are still stuck in the 70s when it comes to programming. I learned a lot about C++, Big O notation, and formal logic, but extremely little about OO design, architecture, SOLID, UX/UI, unit testing, AI, HTML/CSS/JS and pretty much any other practical skills. Only one of my professors had real-world experience, and even she was only out there for a couple of years before going into teaching.

    I went to school in the early 2000s and the labs were running Solaris. 90% of computers are running Windows in some form, and they're still developing against *nix. They have a Windows lab now, but I doubt the curriculum has changed much.

    I think universities need to make a clear distinction between Computer Science and Software Engineering. You can't learn both in four years.

    true there is a big diff between Comp Sci and the Engineering.

    but you need one to have the other at some level.

    heck the first C class they had locally when I started was taught by a guy who was mostly into Pascal , that was a riot as I helped him switch gears from

    "No Addresses, No Pointers"  to "it's all addresses and pointers" !!

  • Is there an option for security that uses a Kinect?

    , Ian2 wrote

    Just wondering - I would personally like to have an App on the Xbox One that acts as a sentry - it seems like an obvious thing to do but thwart with recriminations over privacy - which many like I might be happy to live with.

    Option 2 would be a PC based system that uses the Kinect.

    Anyone seen anything in these areas that might be of interest?

    some of the home cameras have the ability to decide when to record activity and when to send you a notice of the activity, not exactly what you are asking but very close.

    I am sure that one could trigger a door lock based on a good facial algo match but I have not seen it done so far,

  • are degrees worth anything ?

    , RealBboy360 wrote

    Taking a quiz like that is useless.  Good developers adapt to the system and figure it out.  There are a lot of people who are great at tests, but not good workers.  A good test is give them a small project and tell them to do it in any language or way they want to.

    There's also lot of articles I've seen recently going towards functional programming and how oop isn't efficient. 

    What it comes down to is how fast you can get work done and features rolled out, not how well you can over-engineer things.

    I find people who don't have engineering degrees try to over-compensate by making their code super complex to try to prove their smarter than people with those degrees.  Also people with masters degrees will try to justify the time they wasted going to school instead of just taking a second job or working on a side project.

    Masters in Business is ok, cus you're making social connections which could be useful.

    by it's self yes,  trust me if you had been with me you would understand the case ... the test was just the nail on the coffin as we went over the whole interview.

  • are degrees worth anything ?

    , Ray7 wrote

    *snip*

     

    odd that he had an arts degree in a technical subject. 

    that's my bad typing not the exact degree I was trying to abbreviate  "Bachelor" not B of Arts .

     

  • are degrees worth anything ?

    , FuncOfT wrote

    *snip*

    That's not so bad as you think.  I've interviewed a lot of developers and a lot of so called senior devs couldn't answer those questions.  /They/ were without excuse.  As for a fresh grad, some CS programs barely touch on OOP.  They might have a course specifically on it, but that's just one course, then you are supposed to remember all those terms from that one course.  Without practical application, you'll forget those terms, even if you actually learned how to use those principals.  So, it's more a lack of experience.  To dig in and really know if they are capable and if they learned OOP at all, a simple programming test would help.  Just imagine if you were given, say, a few questions about calculus, that you passed a year or two ago, and every once in a while you might even use a little bit of it, but it's not your primary focus.  You forget fast.

    Resume and verbal interview made claims of knowing Java and c#. So the person was over stating qualification.

     

  • Is Code First with Existing Database no longer available?

    Sounds like you just need to take one step back and make it all work.

    I am doing WebAPI and OData 4  with EF 6.

     

    I have two VS projects: one is the web app that builds my controllers for the rest api's

    the other is my EF model that is compiled as a dll for the web app to use.

    for a clean start I create a vs class library project, add the nugget for EF 6.*

    then you can use the VS add dialog to add an EF data model, point that to the data base and it will scaffold all the classes it needs.

    no more edmx file.

    the results are a nice set of  POCO c# classes

  • are degrees worth anything ?

    thanks for all the input.

    just to fill it some info:

    I am 55. been working on programming since the mid 80's

    I have no degrees , took some local community college but by the time I did that I was already coding in BASIC, C and 6502 Assembly.

    so I am mostly self taught.

    I started with a Commodore VIC-20 and built my own interface to load and save programs to  tape. - the VIC and the C=64 had a tape port but the deck made for it was out of my budget back then.

    so I have no problem with a new guy who wants to learn but after 3 to 4 years of formal classes and a degree I think they should at least have the ability to answer basic questions about the common topics like OO and what is an INTERFACE.

    he talked good, if we had not given a test we might have hired the guy.

    if we had  a large-ish team we might have taken him on in a Jr. Role  but we do not have the bodies to carry him right now.