Thanks for the nice comments folks - as you can imagine many people are pretty pumped about this.
I love the comment about a larger room - thats the room we used for war room (oops we had to change the name to ship room...) forever going back at least to nt4. So there is a little history in there & it is one of the biggest rooms on campus.
as for the setup error - it sounds like your copy was not correct - some of the files are missing.
/i p.s. yes a bloke named scott graf has a bunch of golden things in his office because he was obsessed with gold member form the austin powers films. That & he used to roller skate around in gold shorts.
to me, most people who are not doing super big sites want the framework stuff. however, there are some cases we know of where people have written an app either directly to http.sys or to use a light version of iis - usually thats bigger sites - my space,
live.com, blah blah. these are apps we're super interested to see on core.
but the greatest percentage of people doing stuff want .net. on server core an we do too...
Actually, i got a bounce from your email server...
(this: The message cannot be delivered due to a configuration error on the server. Please contact your Administrator. <mail1.microsoft.com #5.3.0 smtp;553 5.3.0 <email@example.com>... user unknown>
We didn't do testing of the things you named - but we have heard of someone running apache.
Jeroen - we usually don't go for hard numbers at beta 2 as there is still a bunch of flux. we believe it will be significant for some roles.
rasx - at the moment, no framework. from an inital point, their setup has dependencies on higher level (ie not included) things. sql is, at the moment in the same category. we're working this - i would really like sql...
kryptos - yeah we'd like a command line login as well, but you have to remember winlogon is all new in vista/longhorn - i would not want to block for just waiting on that. also there is a load of extensibility in winlogon - how would this handle that extensibility?
thats kinda unknown & its a corner case. i wouldn't hold you hopes up for text mode login...
staceyw - wow that idea of having a system on a key never occured to us. actually, it did, i'm just torquing you...
rj... - yeah you could do that with tools that exist in todays system, but there are no guarantees the system will work in that case. this is somehting that will be supported
tomax7 (1) - i thought it was quite slimming actually. & i need that...
(2) so let me get what you are saying - you ar ethinking that someone is going to use an attack vector that is on an admin machine using a remote mmc session? geez, if i were writing a virus or trojan for that scenario, i'd be a doof - "hey i have a good idea,
lets attack .01% of systems in the world being used by the most knowledgeable users". but seriously, that vector is the same as attacking a full windows installation. (don't think i am dissing you - that is a question that has been asked a number of times
finally - we're going at this as a first go around - we love seeing the responses - i am super happy to hear direct feedback on server beta 2, core or full - if you have issues send me a mail. i am guessing if you are here you could find how to mail me...
vbl stands for virtual build lab. we have central build lab && a set of second level labs (usually org based) that do a put all the changes that have happened for a period of time in at one go. it allows us to keep the core build super solid, && have teams
work off by themselves without the rest of the world hosing them. originally we would only have 1 level of vbls below core. now we have multiple levels of vbls. reverse integrating is the term we use for putting stuff from the vbl into the main lab.
we didn't know about the vista name back in 1999 when this was created. we still had neptune & odessey as separate projects - some idiot went off to create whistler && blackcomb as project names. longhorn came out of that...
First, we signed off xp 2 weeks before sept 11 - no one can say the world & specifically computing are not massively changed since that time. (small aside - we did the xp launch in nyc in oct that year - it was an incredibly saddening sight to visit ground
zero & hear stories of the day from friends that live there. but it was a great thing to be part of something that made a statement about launching at that place, at that time).
second, the question was "what is the biggest surprise from ms..." & i said that no one should underestimate the effect of sp2. i didn't say it was ground breaking new technology. the effect i believe it will have is that it lifts the base computing experience
for a very large percentage of computer users to a secure one by default. the are not you & they are not me. They are the people who don't know how or don't care to get the expertise either of us has.
I also believe by doing this in windows the whole of the industry has no choice but to lift its game.
don't get me wrong - in retrospect i wish we had the things we have in xpsp2 in the gold version. but we can't change history - we can only change that is coming up. in this case we made a descision to focus on the base experience being much more secure.
p.s. naming the stuff above is kinda lame - the amount of attack surface reduction, globally having settings set to secure, & creating ways that simplify the security experience ARE major points.
p.p.s.jsrfc58 - how did you find that out? we're going to have to send the boys around now...
1) Whistler was what became xp & ws03. Blackcomb was the next - it became huge, the idea was we do a little release in the middle, longhorn. not so little...
2) frank is the king. the picture is a surprisingly good likeness.
3) i never get no respect, so i am used to the intentional slight from scooby. <inserts lame smiley emoticon here>
i think it all depends on the use of the device. some of what i will say is not blessed corporate stuff, just my opinions.
there are some cases where specialised devices are really needed - i have a little sound recording studio in my house - the audio input i use is a thing called an Echo Layla - it uses a special pci card for speed. It kicks * - the drivers are fast & seemingly
well written. the thing for me on that is i am unsure if i will move the device that runs it (a dell pc) to a later version of windows because it works.
there are many cases where we had super specialised cards etc that are overclocking (or whatever) that may cause driver problems - now i may choose use that in some situations. but i would not put them in a device that i rely on to do key things. i had a
machine for a while that was super focused on being a high end game box (after a "small" ac addiction, i never used it enough...) - you can bet i wanted perf. i used a card i knew had issues, but in the case of video perf it was awesome - i weighed the diffrence
& lived with it. but i also used the machine only games & not any of the stuff i couldn't have on an unstable machine.
final thing - i disagree i would hate to see ms do sound or video cards - i think the reason our stuff is good is because they use generic connection mechanisims (usb, ps/2 or whatever). doing pci cards/chip designs is not a strong spot for us. that & the
speakers we made a couple of years ago were crap.