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  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    I'm puzzled how Microsoft seems to think Windows updates to enterprise customers are equivalent to updates to Facebook on Android?

    Furthermore if home users are serving as another level of beta testers before enterprise users get Windows updates it just leads to opportunity for Windows to get bad press from an update gone wrong.

    IMO both of these issues just add to the bad-mouthing of Windows in the enterprise. Why give business customers another reason to look at Apple or Google? Is Microsoft back to the idea that Windows is impervious to market share loss? Sure sounds like it.

    I would call that behavior suicide by cloning. Removing key features which stood out and thus become indistinguishable from the competiton. This utterly fails pretty much every time though, because your current customers get dismayed and new ones won't come - they will stay with the established product you cloned!

    Note, "cloning" and "copying features" are two different things. It's OK to copy a feature, say virtual desktops, but if you clone the whole experience to the letter and toss out all your previous benefits (like the whole spyware and adware aspect, despite harping about "gmail man" and "scroogled" just two years ago) you made your own product (even your whole company) irrelevant.

    A good example is Opera: They made a Chrome-clone out of their unique product, the result was that Chromers stayed where they are and the traditional Opera customers flocked to the competiton.

    This can also be very often seen in games, take Command and Conquer 4, where they have tossed the traditional base building the fans were accustomed to and copied the instant-action model of more popular competiton at the same. The result was that the players from the other titles stayed where the are, but the established fans became angry and the franchise died.

    Since W8, Microsoft took that principle and elevated it to a mantra for the whole company. From 2012-14 it was all about cloning Apple, since Nadella took helm it's about Google.

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , bondsbw wrote

    @cheong:  That blog never suggested that non-enterprise users are beta testers. 

    Of course it did. "enterprises will be able to receive feature updates after their quality and application compatibility has been assessed in the consumer market" 

    Obviously, in the time of shitstorms, they can't outright say that "home users will be used as beta testers for our big-money clients" on their very own website. But the quotes in the blog are pretty much that, just sugarcoated.

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , bundyum wrote

    my take on this (and it is only speculation):

    Microsoft knew perfectly well they would encounter this precise scenario (multiple times over the coming months/years) upon implementing this path for home users. They however evaluated the security benefit to the whole ecosystem to be higher and more important than the impact to the subset of users they predicted it was likely to affect and the negative PR it would inevitably generate.

    Yeah, right, it's all about security and privacy, that's why W10 phones home left and right and has the most lovable EULA of any MS product to date.

    No, forced updates are about using the home users as beta testers for the business users, and to force any "services" MS deems neccessary for their bottom-line in the future.

    Microsoft even admits it outright, at least the beta tester part:

    https://blogs.windows.com/business/2015/01/30/windows-10-for-enterprise-more-secure-and-up-to-date/

    By putting devices on the Current branch for Business, enterprises will be able to receive feature updates after their quality and application compatibility has been assessed in the consumer market

    By the time Current branch for Business machines are updated, the changes will have been validated by millions of Insiders, consumers and customers' internal test processes for several months, allowing updates to be deployed with this increased assurance of validation.

    That's it. Any other "nice" explanations are wishful thinking given the "our users? beep them" string of actions and attitudes of this company in the last three years.

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , kettch wrote

    *snip*

    It's likely much less than 1%, and of that tiny fraction, only a further tiny fraction would even know what happened if there was a bad update. Of that group, it would be a good idea if they ran Pro. If they run Home knowing the risk, then they don't have any reason to complain.

    Oh noes, the dreaded "no one used it anyway" argument, which also was used during the W8 start menu days.

    If no one used the granular controls of Windows Update, why have they bothered to change it the first place?

    Rhetoricus Microsoftus:

    1. Some people turned Windows Update off or declined updates

    2. Thus we are forcing updates now

    3. But no one will notice anway, because no one bothered to change the default WU-settings in the first place!

    That's the patented talk and logic that made Windows 8, 8.1, original Xbone, all-caps VS, bleached-Office etc. into the smash hits they were.

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , kettch wrote

    *snip*

    Most likely the failure rate is no different than it's ever been, but people need something to complain about.

    Except that THIS TIME YOU CANNOT STOP UPDATES.

    Microsoft have invalidated that argument completely. Even if only 1% of the user base have this issue, that's TERRIBLY bad given the absolute numbers and that the FRIGGING UPDATES ARE FRIGGING FORCED.

    That's the stupid bed Microsoft made for themselves and now they need to lie in it.

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Looks like WTWF was right after all... More egg on Microsoft's face. I'm sure this kind of problem really helps sell W10 in the enterprise.

    Of course I am right. Basic common sense. I had seen more than enough cases where PCs got bricked by faulty updates and the remedy was to hide the offending updates. You really don't need crystall ball to conclude that removing the ability to control updates would thus cause huge problems in the long run.

    Either Microsoft's programmers are gonna be replaced by magical fairies or control of updates is a must. Everything else is a disaster, it's really THAT SIMPLE.

    Microsoft is totally deluded thinking that some amateur insider program would be an adequate solution for this problem, that's just stupid. As are Microsoft's arguments for forced updates as a whole:

    Browsers do this, as do iPhones! :P :P :P  Oh really?! 

    Sorry, but a PC OS is a far more complicated affair than a browser or a smartphone, given all the possible software and hardware configurations and use cases. Microsoft reasonings on this matter probably fall into a dozen of "argumentum ad.." fallacies.

    Some people don't have automatic updates activated! :P :P :P :P  SO WHAT?

    We haven't had an outbreak of Blaster-proportions for quite some time, so the update regime seemed to work more or less. And it probably worked because the updates weren't done in a dictatorial manner. Had a problem? Hide the update! You're doing something where a restart would be a problem? Deactivate updates for a while! F*CKING SIMPLE STUFF.

    But now you need to cripple brute-forcely the Windows Update Service as a whole: How the heck is that better? And that's just what people will increasingly do the more annoying WU gets. The internet is already full of tutorials on how to kill WU completely on W10. People will do this. How is completely killing WU better for MS than the fine-granular control in W7? Stupid.

    This company is whacked since 2012, completely whacked. Windows 8, Original Xbone, bleached out Office, the updater in Windows 10.. it was so frigging retardedly obvious that all this stuff would bomb, you really don't need to be a genius for this, turning on basic common sense and it flies straight into your face how STUPID all these decisions were, at the first frigging glance.

    Microsoft's main problem is that all their conclusions since 2012 are completely retarded and defy any sane logic. They all go like this:

    1. Flies eat excrement
    2. Flies and humans are lifeforms
    3. Humans should eat sh*t.

    1. Boats swim
    2. Boats and cars are vehicles
    3. Cars swim

    Yeah, it's totally stupid, but exactly this logic forms the basis of ALL newer Microsoft products:

    1. Smartphones are touch-based
    2. Smartphones and PCs are computers
    3. PCs should be touch-centric

    Usability and ergonomics? What's that?

    1. Many games on the PC are online-activated
    2. Consoles play games
    3. Xbone should have maxi-DRM

    No thought whatsoever that the reason many gamers ended up on the console in the first place was because they were fed up by that DRMization on the PC, and no thought whatsoever about the established practice of second-hand games on consoles. That they would reap a shitstorm was an absolute given.

    1. Chrome doesn't let you control the update-process
    2. Chrome and Windows are both software
    3. The update process on Windows should be crippled

    Microsoft's logic of the past three years makes sense only for like 100 miliseconds: The timespan the brain needs until all the logic-centers are activated. After this your brain just screams "Wait, this doesn't make sense at all. This is STUPID".

    Damn, I once liked this company.

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , bondsbw wrote

    they may use more rigorous testing and the insider preview program to catch problems before they go out.  More is at stake now with the forced update policy.

    http://betanews.com/2015/07/26/windows-10-update-kb3074681-causes-explorer-crashes/

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    And so it begins:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/25/windows-10-automatic-update-problems/

    Windows Update in W10 pushes faulty nVidia drivers out which are unstoppable/unhidable and already brick PCs.

    Dreadful Drivers

    The flaw revolves around Nvidia graphics cards with users taking to Nvidia's forums to report Windows Update is automatically installing new drivers which break multimonitor setups, SLI (dual card) configurations and can even stop PCs booting entirely which pushes Windows 10 into its emergency recovery mode.

    "Please pull these off Windows update!!!" writes Nvidia forum poster slycoder. "It makes my second monitor not work and lots of flickering! Please. I roll back and Windows Update reinstalls them :/"

    "I second this," agrees ZabaZu. "For multi screen users, that driver is flat out broken and it is beyond annoying that windows auto updates to it."

    Now that's bad and I absolutely knew this stuff would happen. It was bound to happen. It was 100% certain.

    Given Windows 10 updates cannot be stopped the most obvious solution is to uninstall third party driver management and hand it all over to Windows Update to avoid clashes. This potentially simplifies matters by providing an all-in-one update service, but it does mean taking away control from specialist companies over their own products.

    A second approach is something many readers mentioned in comments on my previous post when Microsoft confirmed Windows 10 updates were unstoppable: hack it.

    Initially this might work, but in April senior Microsoft product marketing manager Helen Harmetz said during a Windows 10 webinar that users who forcibly stopped any Windows 10 updates would eventually have their security updates cut off. Microsoft has yet to confirm this brutal enforcement policy in official documentation, but if this is the path it chooses that would ultimately make any form of update hack pointless.

    Wait wait.. what?

    Are they completey out of their mind ?!?!?!?!?!!!

    Does that mean if I stop Windows Update by disabling its service for a while or use the gpedit.msc solution, Microsoft might punish me by stopping all Windows updates in the future? Microsoft is aware that paying customers are not their inmates?

    Sick! No really, * THIS. Hardcore Stallmanism was sane compared to NuMicrosoft. This takes it way too far. This is not funny anymore.

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , bondsbw wrote

    @cheong:  "What if" questions are fine, but like I've said in other threads, you can't judge Windows 10's policy by faults in previous versions.

    You got it wrong: On Windows 7 this is fixable, on Windows 10 it's not fixable. At least not without some crazy workarounds or completely killing Windows Update.

    , bondsbw wrote

    But speculation is worthless.

    What's there to speculate? I've seen Windows 10 myself - you cannot hide/reject updates there, Office ones included. That's no speculation.

    If I would get a similar buggy patch in Office or Windows on W10 instead of W7, I would be FUBARed. And I know this kind of things will happen, because I doubt Microsoft's programmers will be blessed by the programming god between now (when they pushed another faulty Office update out) and the time W10 arrives (in a week).

  • Faulty update time! (And again, W10..)

    , magicalclick wrote

    Anyway, it is strange how it can crash Outlook. Pretty bad there.

    You're welcome:

    https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/33f220d7-2349-448f-bd2b-a45bf0df0072/updates-break-imap-every-month?forum=outlook

    https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/projectserver/en-US/d0350080-ee9a-4394-8f57-daaf3ac08a2d/outlook-2010-crashing-after-bunch-of-windows-updates-on-this-tuesday?forum=outlook

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2010-outlook/imap-account-crashes-outlook-2010/73c5017e-60ae-4b2f-80f3-ee6ee1e7a793?page=1

    http://blog.incoperating.com/outlook-2010-crashes-permanently-with-appcrash-at-module-pstprx32-dll-with-errorcode-0xc0000005-while-accessing-imap-account-pst-file-because-of-kb2956128/

    http://www.google.com/search?q=outlook+2010+imap+crash+site:answers.microsoft.com