Rob Relyea - There's Something About XAML

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Join Charles and Channel 9 special correspondent, Dr. Sneath, as we interview Rob Relyea about XAML's past, present and future. Here, we dig into how XAML works and why it is desiged the way it is. Are you curious about how and why XAML works the way it does? Ever wonder why BAML was created and what it's for? If so, this video is for you.

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WPF, XAML

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    The Discussion

    • User profile image
      raymond
      Charles,

      Charles Petzold, the last I heard, is writing a book on XAML for Microsoft Press.

      Applications=Code+Markup

      http://www.charlespetzold.com/wpf/

      Suggest a followup video with him on XAML and his thoughts on Avalon or Windows Presentation Foundation.Smiley

    • User profile image
      Rob Relyea

      Raymond-
      You can read a lot of Petzold's thoughts on his blog right now...

      As he has been writing his book, he has had a bunch of great posts.  Here is a sampling of XAML related posts I grabbed from his Table of Contents:

       The Two APIs, October 2005
       XAML Rules, But Code Suffers, November 2005
       Introducing XAML Cruncher, March 2006
       Squaring the Circle, April 2006
       To Infinity and Beyond, April 2006
       8-bit Binary Adder in XAML, June 2006

      Yes, I'd love to see him discuss his thoughts on WPF/XAML.  I'd also like to hear the Channel 9 community's thoughts.

      -Rob
      Rob Relyea | Lead Program Manager | WPF Team

      P.S. There are several other WPF Books coming as well.

    • User profile image
      raymond

      Thank you for the information.

      Still hope Channel 9 can interview Charles about XAML and Windows Presentation Foundation.

      Maybe Carl Franklin can get him on his Dot Net Rocks show as well.Tongue Out

    • User profile image
      jsvonline.​com

      I'm glad I got into this just two weeks ago instead of earlier.  I came in at an exciting time.

      I like how you can extend existing xaml objects and created new ones.

      I was looking for an RSSView button that would tie into the common feeds list that I can set sizing, etc attribs for.   I haven't decided whether to extend an existing object or create a new one, the great thing is I can and it's not difficult.

      Is the IxFeedsManager and IFeedsManager going to change or does it look like it's make it into the final .NET 3.0?

    • User profile image
      staceyw
      Very interesting.  Thanks Rob and Chazz.  That helped me understand it better with integration of code/VS.  
      1) I see some of the pros and cons of the BAML.  Would a con be no support for back-end optimizers like Phoenix?
      2) As a pro - Does the BAML as a resource mean doing a new skin for the app will be a simple as creating another BAML file and figure out how to load it instead of the default BAML?
      3) Does this mean the resource editor will get some kind of overhaul?  Maybe it is just me, but working with resources does not seem as simple and intuitive as it could be in VS. 

      Cheers.
      --wjs
    • User profile image
      Rob Relyea
      Staceyw-

      1) Phoenix and optimization
      I'm not sure what a backend optimizer would improve with code like this:

      Page p = new Page();

      Grid g = new Grid();
      g.Background = Brushes.Blue;
      p.Child = g;

      Button b = new Button();
      b.Content = "hello world";
      g.Children.Add(b);

      That is the kind of thing represented by the BAML.

      A developers code-behind logic will still be optimized by the code compilers, but the initialization of the tree of components won't be.

      2) Skin for apps
      We definitely see replacing the BAML in satellite assemblies for localization, but we haven't yet pursued that technique for skinning an application.

      3) Resource Editor in VS
      I'm not sure what is in store for the Resource Editor in VS.  I'm sure the VS team would love more details on what you find inadequate about the Resource Editor.  If you can write that up, I'd be happy to pass it along to the right people.

      Thx, Rob
    • User profile image
      StewShack

      Coming from an ASP / ASP.NET background I love the idea of using markup to create applications. Thank you for this presentation!

      It took some digging but I found the post on the 7 Goals for XAML:

      http://www.longhornblogs.com/rrelyea/archive/2004/11/29/7838.aspx

    • User profile image
      staceyw
      I am missing something basic here.  I installed Cider, got a project and a window and put a button on it.  Double-click on the button and can't get any code behind.  How do I get to the click event of a button - for example?   Figured out it is not implemented yet.
    • User profile image
      Rob Relyea
      Yes, "Cider's" (Visual Designer for WPF which runs inside of VS) CTP (Customer Tech Preview) does not yet have the ability to easily add an event handler.  You need to hand edit the XAML and the code behind yourself right now.
      That clearly will change.

      You can stay abreast of what Cider can/can't do and post questions at the Cider Forum.


      EID (Expression Interactive Designer) does have this feature in today's CTPs.

      ----

      One thing you'll notice from now on, the tools will change and improve much faster than WPF itself.  Each public release of WPF will have fewer and fewer changes to the API.

      Please check out the Cider Forum and the expression blog.  Try the tools and give feedback.

      Thx, Rob

      Rob Relyea | PM | WPF Team
    • User profile image
      skjc

      nice video, i enjoyed watching it although i started to lose it a bit near the end as i was in over my head.

      which is the point i would like to make i guess. i am new to all things microsoft and my background is flash/actionscript 2.0. i started to learn xaml, visual c# and EID on June 1 but its slow going as there is so much underneath this stuff that makes it confusing for a beginner.

      ok here is my point. as a xaml beginner its very difficult to learn it 'off the bat' and what i mean is that i have found i must learn visual c# (i choose this route as its similar to actionscript) in order to make sense of some of the xaml. furthermore there are limited resources out there at the moment for learning xaml and of course things are changing quickly so its difficult to hold onto something.

      anyhow as i said i am making slow progress but Rob what would be your suggestions, if any, to someone who is new to this? (i was looking to fasttrack but that aint gonna happen)

      Note: I have worked through EID both from creating XAML from the UI and then checking it and XAML by hand and checking the UI. C# basics are ok so i have some idea. I have watched most of the videos (the mix ones are great) and hit any tutorial i can find. i purchased the xaml in a nutshell book (rubbish imho) and beginning visual c# 2005.

      thanks

    • User profile image
      Rob Relyea

      I have a new page where I link to useful "Xaml Language" info (including this video): http://robrelyea.com/xaml.
      For WPF info, I also have http://robrelyea.com/wpf

      Thanks, Rob

      Rob Relyea | Program Manager, WPF & Xaml Language Team
      robrelyea.com | /blog | /wpf | /xaml

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