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TWC9: Paxton Caden Keller, DirectX game templates, C++, .NET Fiddle, Viasfora, 0 or 1 and homework...

17 minutes, 5 seconds


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This week on Channel 9, Charles and Dan discuss the week's top developer news, including;

Picks of the Week!

Homework Question: [15:50] What is a side-effect of itself?


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  • Thanks guys! Elisa, Paxton and I just watched this. Thanks for the well wishes. Smiley

    From cloud nine to Channel 9,

    Brian, Elisa and Paxton

  • Side effect of itself.. that's interesting, kind of a zen programming question, tree falling in the woods type of thing Smiley

    its a side effect so it changes some state or its somehow unintended and its caused by itself so in other words its recursive.. maybe like a setter that calls itself? Like when you have a property and a field called Foo and foo and you accidentally use Foo instead of foo in the setter of Foo? I dunno... Smiley

  • vasile Dvasile D

    it is called evolution or live,one output of a operation become the input of the new

  • CharlesCharles Welcome Change

    Sure, in its simplest form, recursion can be function (input) -> side effect (output) -> function input (side effect (output)) -> you're passing side effects into f and computing f with that data until some state is reached (unless you're infinitely computing...). So, in this case, a result is passed to itself (function), not itself, which is the basis of the question (by definition, a side effect of x that is x is x).

    A function, f, that returns f would be a sufficient answer to this question. Or would it?  More interestingly, as Erik Meijer answered ( he did the homework, too Smiley ), energy, e, could be a correct answer. How so?

    Question 42.

    PS: On an unrelated note (or is it? Is knowledge a side effect of itself?), did you read the history of 0/1 based indexing? What do you think of the author's take?

  • The article  "citation needed"  is really interesting and don't miss the comments.

    Thanks for that Tip!

  • MattMatt

    A side-effect of itself is called a *Quine* :)

  • CharlesCharles Welcome Change


    That should be correct, Matt. A quine returns it's implementation (itself as code in the programming case).

    There are more answers! Keep them coming.


  • Adam SpeightAdam​Speight2008 The Bandito Coder

    .Net does support "non-standard" array bounds. The following code creates an array with index bounds of -5 To +4. The method of doing it doesn't permit array indexer access though, you have use the SetValue and GetValue methods.

    Dim wierdArray = Array.CreateInstance(GetType(integer),{10},{-5})
    Dim lb =wierdArray.GetLowerBound(0) ' -5
    Dim ub = wierdArray.GetUpperBound(0) '+4

    .Net supports have "non-standard" array bounds


    LISP? Code <--> Data

    My conceptual idea of side-effects, is an effect that cause (either intentional or unintentional)  external effects to it surround environment and stimuli. Which leads to suggestion that it requires at least to thing to be interacting.

    Self Referential statements can result in flip-flop behaviour,

    If this program Ends Then GoTo Start

    In hardware this would a feedback loop. Some of the output effecting the input, will cause the state to either converge, diverge or oscillate, 

    Waves propagating through a medium can "side-effect" itself, the result is un-knowable with 100% certainty every has a non-zero probabilistic value of occurring .


  • Eric AguiarHeavens​Revenge Know Thyself

    LOL c'mon ladies... in the context of a modern computer program that uses RAM/register based state to compute, the side effect of "itself" is called its mutable state or its invariants >.>

    Yup, it's that simple...

    Interesting how you came to immutable programming while thinking about "quality" from such a philosophically poised question without connecting the concepts by thinking about it too hard Tongue Out

  • thanks for a nice show,, so you whanted to see the ILM 

    it is here for you, it has been there for manny years


    and in case you miss out on trailer one


    and on the 20 december 2013 ,, you will know ILM

    Michael Hansen


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