WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.000 [MUSIC] 00:00:12.110 --> 00:00:13.865 Welcome back to This Week on Channel 9. 00:00:13.865 --> 00:00:15.108 I am Mark DeFalco. 00:00:15.108 --> 00:00:17.060 >> And I am Duncan McKenzie. 00:00:17.060 --> 00:00:18.406 >> Sweet, glad to be back. 00:00:18.406 --> 00:00:20.971 I haven't been on in a while. 00:00:20.971 --> 00:00:21.830 You haven't been on in a while. 00:00:21.830 --> 00:00:23.018 >> I haven't been on in years. 00:00:23.018 --> 00:00:23.967 >> Years and years. 00:00:23.967 --> 00:00:24.570 >> Years. 00:00:24.570 --> 00:00:26.191 >> In fact, you were saying, last time you did this, 00:00:26.191 --> 00:00:27.148 it was in a different studio. 00:00:27.148 --> 00:00:29.800 >> It was over in the little self-serve studio, 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:31.981 where it's all sort of self-serve. 00:00:31.981 --> 00:00:34.629 >> I think last time I was in that studio for 00:00:34.629 --> 00:00:37.125 This Week on Channel 9 was with Dan. 00:00:37.125 --> 00:00:40.360 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I did it with Clint. 00:00:40.360 --> 00:00:41.987 >> Yeah. >> Which is almost as bad. 00:00:41.987 --> 00:00:43.186 >> [LAUGH] >> And 00:00:43.186 --> 00:00:45.828 we are about as prepared for this as normally Clint and 00:00:45.828 --> 00:00:46.801 I would be. 00:00:46.801 --> 00:00:47.373 >> Good. 00:00:47.373 --> 00:00:49.521 >> So hopefully you enjoy the kind of off the cuff nature. 00:00:49.521 --> 00:00:52.540 >> We like to keep a consistent level of quality. 00:00:52.540 --> 00:00:53.561 >> Yes, I try. 00:00:53.561 --> 00:00:55.090 >> Let's jump right in. 00:00:55.090 --> 00:00:57.835 Our first news story is about the new mobile optimized 00:00:57.835 --> 00:00:59.177 development life cycle. 00:00:59.177 --> 00:01:04.042 So through various, for example, the acquisition of Xamarin, 00:01:04.042 --> 00:01:05.899 the growth of Azure, and 00:01:05.899 --> 00:01:10.470 now one thing I'm getting into recently is HockeyApp. 00:01:10.470 --> 00:01:12.755 We had this brilliant lifecycle. 00:01:12.755 --> 00:01:14.575 I think Bryan Keller would be thrilled to 00:01:14.575 --> 00:01:16.535 hear about application lifecycle management. 00:01:16.535 --> 00:01:17.305 >> Yes. 00:01:17.305 --> 00:01:19.755 >> This new optimized lifecycle. 00:01:19.755 --> 00:01:22.211 >> Right, so the thing with all of these different parts is that 00:01:22.211 --> 00:01:24.139 when you're trying to hook together and do this 00:01:24.139 --> 00:01:26.546 development, generally, you wannna do it in one place and 00:01:26.546 --> 00:01:28.791 have these things work together and things like that. 00:01:28.791 --> 00:01:32.244 In a lot of cases before, with Xamarin, for example, 00:01:32.244 --> 00:01:34.880 being a third party, it's a challenge. 00:01:34.880 --> 00:01:36.760 So you're moving between environments, 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:38.560 you're moving between server environments, 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.310 things like HockeyApp is already different. 00:01:40.310 --> 00:01:42.480 What we have here, and if you follow the link, 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.050 is just a lot of details on how these things are kind of tied 00:01:45.050 --> 00:01:47.240 together, which is gonna be wonderful for people. 00:01:47.240 --> 00:01:50.447 >> The beautiful thing is that it's not a single destination 00:01:50.447 --> 00:01:52.230 either, I mean, for your app. 00:01:52.230 --> 00:01:54.699 So this is all about making an app that's for 00:01:54.699 --> 00:01:57.434 any mobile device, or that runs in the cloud, or 00:01:57.434 --> 00:02:00.656 that is in any of those places, or a PC app, or anything. 00:02:00.656 --> 00:02:01.516 >> Right. 00:02:01.516 --> 00:02:03.427 >> So definitely check it out and see how you can 00:02:03.427 --> 00:02:05.498 be more efficient in just getting things done. 00:02:05.498 --> 00:02:08.449 >> Yep, and then continuing along in that same vein, so 00:02:08.449 --> 00:02:11.760 Xamarin, of course, Xamarin, Xamarin, Xamarin. 00:02:11.760 --> 00:02:12.860 Say it as many times we can. 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:15.302 We can have a drinking game, if I say Xamarin, if we say mobile, 00:02:15.302 --> 00:02:16.403 those are all good reasons. 00:02:16.403 --> 00:02:17.473 >> [LAUGH] >> So 00:02:17.473 --> 00:02:20.831 Xamarin just had their live event, which, I think, is still 00:02:20.831 --> 00:02:23.890 going on, but by the time you see this, it will be over. 00:02:23.890 --> 00:02:25.370 So Xamarin Evolve. 00:02:25.370 --> 00:02:26.270 >> Yeah. 00:02:26.270 --> 00:02:29.090 >> And what's interesting is when they planned the event, 00:02:29.090 --> 00:02:32.120 they weren't part of Microsoft, and who knows, maybe people knew 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:34.320 things, but certainly, we didn't know and it wasn't public. 00:02:34.320 --> 00:02:37.120 So Xamarin Evolve was a completely third party event, 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:40.130 nothing to do with Microsoft, Boom, they become part of it, 00:02:40.130 --> 00:02:41.630 they announce a build. 00:02:41.630 --> 00:02:43.240 Two weeks later, they're having their big event, 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:46.520 and people are like, why is it not on Channel 9? 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:47.776 Why is it not live? 00:02:47.776 --> 00:02:50.760 And it's like, guys, we don't move that fast. 00:02:50.760 --> 00:02:52.098 But we kinda do. 00:02:52.098 --> 00:02:54.030 So I've already seen there's at least a page for 00:02:54.030 --> 00:02:54.720 it on Channel 9. 00:02:54.720 --> 00:02:56.920 They're gonna take some of that content, 00:02:56.920 --> 00:02:57.810 they're gonna put it up. 00:02:57.810 --> 00:03:00.300 Because otherwise, you'd have to go to YouTube or 00:03:00.300 --> 00:03:01.410 something to see it. 00:03:01.410 --> 00:03:03.935 So there is a ton of content around Xamarin coming out. 00:03:03.935 --> 00:03:07.410 Cuz there's the content from that event, and then there were 00:03:07.410 --> 00:03:10.640 four or five pretty good Xamarin related talks and 00:03:10.640 --> 00:03:12.640 mobile development related talks at Build. 00:03:12.640 --> 00:03:15.590 So I'll just a little shout out there for the Build content. 00:03:15.590 --> 00:03:19.080 We have 140 hours, 100 and 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:22.040 some hours of content there from Build, and a certain 00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:24.350 amount of it gets seen, cuz it's live and things like that. 00:03:24.350 --> 00:03:26.050 And then a lot of it, people don't find. 00:03:26.050 --> 00:03:28.760 So just take the time, dig through it, and 00:03:28.760 --> 00:03:29.830 see what's useful for you. 00:03:29.830 --> 00:03:32.160 Add it to your queue, if you knew you could do that. 00:03:32.160 --> 00:03:34.725 >> There was plenty of content that's exclusively available 00:03:34.725 --> 00:03:37.031 on demand on Channel 9 that wasn't even presented at 00:03:37.031 --> 00:03:37.810 the conference. 00:03:37.810 --> 00:03:40.075 It was prerecorded and ready to go and launched there. 00:03:40.075 --> 00:03:43.665 So, Build was only a month ago? 00:03:43.665 --> 00:03:45.645 It feels like forever, but it was like a month ago, so 00:03:45.645 --> 00:03:47.450 even if you're watching like eight hours a day, 00:03:47.450 --> 00:03:49.225 you probably still have content you can watch. 00:03:49.225 --> 00:03:50.895 >> Definitely, and a lot of people would talk to us like, 00:03:50.895 --> 00:03:52.905 hey, is there a button to download it all? 00:03:52.905 --> 00:03:53.750 That's a lot of stuff. 00:03:53.750 --> 00:03:54.305 >> [LAUGH] >> But 00:03:54.305 --> 00:03:56.455 there is buttons on each one of them to download, and actually, 00:03:56.455 --> 00:03:57.903 there was a discussion on Twitter recently, 00:03:57.903 --> 00:03:59.860 people were like, my God, 00:03:59.860 --> 00:04:01.620 Channel 9 lets you download videos. 00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:02.731 Of course we do. You bet. 00:04:02.731 --> 00:04:04.299 You can download them. 00:04:04.299 --> 00:04:07.222 Some of the apps, which were built with Xamarin, by the way, 00:04:07.222 --> 00:04:10.380 like the iOS app and things like that, lets you download. 00:04:10.380 --> 00:04:13.110 And just a little secret that I shouldn't let you know yet, 00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:16.680 the Windows app will have download very, very soon. 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:18.228 >> Sweet. >> Certainly the prototype that 00:04:18.228 --> 00:04:19.323 I've seen has it as well. 00:04:19.323 --> 00:04:22.318 >> I'm sure if you dig around somewhere, and I don't know yet, 00:04:22.318 --> 00:04:23.470 but almost every year, 00:04:23.470 --> 00:04:26.190 there's someone who writes a PowerShell script to go. 00:04:26.190 --> 00:04:28.839 Specifically a track or certain sets of things, 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:32.522 usually more efficient than getting 100, well, probably 2, 00:04:32.522 --> 00:04:33.700 300 gig of video. 00:04:33.700 --> 00:04:36.980 >> There was even one person who wrote an app that would browse 00:04:36.980 --> 00:04:39.760 our list of events, let you pick the event, and download it. 00:04:39.760 --> 00:04:41.692 And so he was actually calling into our old ADPI and 00:04:41.692 --> 00:04:42.428 things like that. 00:04:42.428 --> 00:04:44.965 I'll see if I can track that down and 00:04:44.965 --> 00:04:46.922 add a link to the show nups. 00:04:46.922 --> 00:04:50.470 Cool, so continuing with the Xamarin talk, boy, 00:04:50.470 --> 00:04:53.230 we love Xamarin, it's just so exciting. 00:04:53.230 --> 00:04:56.670 But Xamarin, as part of all of these announcements that Evolve 00:04:56.670 --> 00:04:59.250 has actually decided to go open. 00:04:59.250 --> 00:05:00.330 >> The runtime, yeah. 00:05:00.330 --> 00:05:02.320 >> So a lot of the SDKs and 00:05:02.320 --> 00:05:05.670 the interrupt kind of stuff that works across the different 00:05:05.670 --> 00:05:08.710 platforms is actually being put up as open source. 00:05:09.810 --> 00:05:12.310 Obviously, most people probably won't add to it or 00:05:12.310 --> 00:05:13.130 do anything like that. 00:05:13.130 --> 00:05:14.577 But having it there that you can dig into it, 00:05:14.577 --> 00:05:16.511 especially when you're having a problem is always nice. 00:05:16.511 --> 00:05:19.751 >> Yeah, I mean, it's been crazy, the kind of, 00:05:19.751 --> 00:05:24.044 this may be a segue, the kind of journey it's been on from .NET 00:05:24.044 --> 00:05:26.540 in its heyday, a decade or so ago. 00:05:26.540 --> 00:05:27.130 >> It is a segue. 00:05:28.200 --> 00:05:32.040 >> Into what was Mono, that Miguel de Casa kicked off a long 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:36.300 time ago into now what is Xamarin, and from our closed 00:05:36.300 --> 00:05:39.690 source or proprietary system into .NET being open source and 00:05:39.690 --> 00:05:41.110 to the Xamarin runtime being open source and 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:43.050 to all this being available to everyone. 00:05:43.050 --> 00:05:45.650 >> Yeah, it is definitely a movement, and they, 00:05:45.650 --> 00:05:49.180 to his segue point, someone put together, and I should say who, 00:05:49.180 --> 00:05:51.490 but I'm not going to cuz I can't remember their name. 00:05:51.490 --> 00:05:54.930 A great timeline, though, it's not only really full-featured 00:05:54.930 --> 00:05:57.390 with information, but it's very attractive as well. 00:05:57.390 --> 00:06:00.190 And it goes through all the way back to when Anders first 00:06:00.190 --> 00:06:01.030 joined the company. 00:06:01.030 --> 00:06:03.640 And it's nice cuz it brings together the fact that when we 00:06:03.640 --> 00:06:06.200 started getting involved in Java, 00:06:06.200 --> 00:06:10.560 as being sort of the beginning of a timeline towards .NET. 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.119 And it's interesting because Anders was someone who, 00:06:15.119 --> 00:06:19.969 when I was in university a very, very, very long time ago, 00:06:19.969 --> 00:06:22.692 had written, I think, Pascal. 00:06:22.692 --> 00:06:23.597 >> Turbo Pascal. 00:06:23.597 --> 00:06:24.155 >> Thank you. 00:06:24.155 --> 00:06:25.233 I think Pascal we also had at the time. 00:06:25.233 --> 00:06:26.127 But anyways, 00:06:26.127 --> 00:06:29.480 had written Turbo Pascal which we used in school and so 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.502 to consider this, the impact of this person all the way across, 00:06:33.502 --> 00:06:36.556 and now, as we release things like .NET Core and 00:06:36.556 --> 00:06:40.431 things like that, all coming through from that same starting 00:06:40.431 --> 00:06:44.070 time when we got them from Borland over to Microsoft. 00:06:44.070 --> 00:06:45.780 >> You made a comment, I think before the show, 00:06:45.780 --> 00:06:47.510 about how many floppies things came on. 00:06:47.510 --> 00:06:50.345 That reminds me of getting Adelphi or Visual. 00:06:50.345 --> 00:06:52.330 >> Yeah, well I was thinking about, of course for me, 00:06:52.330 --> 00:06:54.800 it was always Fox Pro, which I was like. 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.284 I get confused cuz it was Fox Pro 2.6, but I seem to remember 00:06:58.284 --> 00:07:01.100 it was on like 26 three and a half inch floppies. 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:02.290 And so you'd have a stack of them, 00:07:02.290 --> 00:07:04.870 and you'd have to put them in one at a time in order. 00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:07.430 >> You also just, you had a stack, you put it in, 00:07:07.430 --> 00:07:09.092 it went upside down, kinda. 00:07:09.092 --> 00:07:11.609 >> Yeah, it was a lot of work, and at some point, I realized 00:07:11.609 --> 00:07:14.230 when I got rid of that computer and I wasn't using anymore, 00:07:14.230 --> 00:07:17.040 I still had the disks and I didn't wanna get rid of them. 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:18.390 >> I think I have some laying around 00:07:18.390 --> 00:07:20.999 somewhere in like my vault, probably in my parents' house. 00:07:20.999 --> 00:07:22.903 But I still have a bunch of stuff. 00:07:22.903 --> 00:07:24.270 There's a- >> I try not to keep stuff at my 00:07:24.270 --> 00:07:24.990 parents' house. 00:07:24.990 --> 00:07:27.520 >> Yeah, well, I don't have a lot of room. 00:07:27.520 --> 00:07:30.688 Space is at a premium here. 00:07:30.688 --> 00:07:33.185 We talked about history, we can talk about the future. 00:07:33.185 --> 00:07:37.149 So you may have heard of .NET Core, 00:07:37.149 --> 00:07:41.930 which is really a new beginning for .NET. 00:07:41.930 --> 00:07:44.500 It's been called previously a subset. 00:07:44.500 --> 00:07:45.700 It's not exactly that, and 00:07:45.700 --> 00:07:47.310 I don't want to refer to it that way. 00:07:47.310 --> 00:07:49.342 I had an excellent chat at Build with Beth Massi, 00:07:49.342 --> 00:07:51.037 who has some excellent content on this. 00:07:51.037 --> 00:07:53.140 But that was one point she nailed and 00:07:53.140 --> 00:07:56.940 nailed home quite a bit was, it's not, it's a new beginning. 00:07:56.940 --> 00:07:59.490 And if you know, it's smaller, it's more portable. 00:07:59.490 --> 00:08:01.420 You have a lot less of this, 00:08:01.420 --> 00:08:03.710 we like the portable class libraries and things. 00:08:03.710 --> 00:08:06.740 You had to target specific profiles in order to get 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:09.780 things to work, cross device, cross platform. 00:08:09.780 --> 00:08:13.014 Together with a unified Windows platform and .NET CORE, 00:08:13.014 --> 00:08:14.730 this is becoming a lot easier. 00:08:14.730 --> 00:08:19.430 So UWP's obviously for your devices and ASP.NET.CORE for 00:08:19.430 --> 00:08:20.610 your websites. 00:08:20.610 --> 00:08:22.800 >> Yeah, and it's interesting, is in the short term, 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:25.260 I do think that there's gonna be a certain amount of pain and 00:08:25.260 --> 00:08:25.930 confusion here. 00:08:25.930 --> 00:08:29.520 Because when they do this shift, there's a reason why they're 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:33.178 calling this version one of .NET Core is because they're trying 00:08:33.178 --> 00:08:35.836 to essentially, I won't say start again, but 00:08:35.836 --> 00:08:38.828 to break this idea of the backwards compatibility and 00:08:38.828 --> 00:08:40.912 things like that here at this point. 00:08:40.912 --> 00:08:44.285 So that you know that hey, I can still use ASP.NET, 00:08:44.285 --> 00:08:46.748 I can still use ASP.NET 4, 5, 5? 00:08:46.748 --> 00:08:48.861 Is there still 5 that's .NET Core? 00:08:48.861 --> 00:08:51.423 >> I think they changed 5 to .NET Core 1, or 00:08:51.423 --> 00:08:52.716 I could be confused. 00:08:52.716 --> 00:08:54.230 >> See, I said there'd be some confusion, 00:08:54.230 --> 00:08:55.061 which is why there is. 00:08:55.061 --> 00:08:56.419 >> There's this article they're pointing you to. 00:08:56.419 --> 00:08:59.894 >> Yeah, and so when you look at that, they're basically deciding 00:08:59.894 --> 00:09:03.306 that if you always tie yourself to where you're gonna do nothing 00:09:03.306 --> 00:09:05.896 but iterate on what we have, then at some point, 00:09:05.896 --> 00:09:08.234 you're making things sort of difficult for 00:09:08.234 --> 00:09:10.852 us to leap ahead and do more interesting things. 00:09:10.852 --> 00:09:13.730 And so I like it, I like that they're doing it. 00:09:13.730 --> 00:09:15.380 It means I have to learn a bunch of stuff. 00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:17.360 And that's always hard, cuz I'm older than him. 00:09:18.390 --> 00:09:20.125 >> But your knowledge does transfer over. 00:09:20.125 --> 00:09:20.758 >> Sure, definitely. 00:09:20.758 --> 00:09:24.820 I mean, I did build my first web app with it, and it was doable. 00:09:24.820 --> 00:09:25.920 I knew what I was doing. 00:09:25.920 --> 00:09:28.520 But just to a certain extent, when you've done something for 00:09:28.520 --> 00:09:31.830 a long time, and in the case of Channel 9, on the dev team, 00:09:31.830 --> 00:09:36.253 we had been using ASP.NET 4, I think 4, 4, or 00:09:36.253 --> 00:09:39.750 5, for so long that we start to get involved into the very, 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:42.890 very fine details in the pipeline in the runtime. 00:09:42.890 --> 00:09:45.523 That if you now wanna go do something else, 00:09:45.523 --> 00:09:48.092 it's a very different world, so right. 00:09:48.092 --> 00:09:50.783 >> I think like, 10, 15 years before making or 00:09:50.783 --> 00:09:52.632 breaking change is acceptable. 00:09:52.632 --> 00:09:55.720 >> Yeah, definitely, and I think You know, it's not, 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:58.890 we're not talking about like a VB 6 kinda change here. 00:09:58.890 --> 00:10:00.747 This is a big deal but 00:10:00.747 --> 00:10:04.510 still using many of the same libraries. 00:10:04.510 --> 00:10:06.710 Still using C# for most people that kind of stuff. 00:10:07.800 --> 00:10:10.258 But anyways, exciting stuff and if anything, 00:10:10.258 --> 00:10:13.207 it means there's a good excuse to spend a few of nights and 00:10:13.207 --> 00:10:15.860 weekends build some tiny little app for yourself. 00:10:15.860 --> 00:10:18.391 Just to pick up all the new stuff. 00:10:18.391 --> 00:10:23.035 >> Cool, continuing on with the future, a new build of Windows. 00:10:23.035 --> 00:10:26.751 Windows 10 insider preview build 14332. 00:10:26.751 --> 00:10:28.200 >> We should give these builds names. 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:30.960 >> Okay, but the names always stick- 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:31.080 >> Yeah. 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:31.660 >> Is the problem. Problem. 00:10:31.660 --> 00:10:32.972 >> But every bill could have a different name. 00:10:32.972 --> 00:10:33.853 >> This could be Fred. 00:10:33.853 --> 00:10:34.400 >> Yes. 00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:34.934 >> Okay. 00:10:34.934 --> 00:10:39.322 >> 14332, I mean what's wrong with that? 00:10:39.322 --> 00:10:42.815 >> The problem is is internally a lot of people talk about it. 00:10:42.815 --> 00:10:44.085 So the point of these builds and 00:10:44.085 --> 00:10:47.505 we'll get to that in a second is to get feedback. 00:10:47.505 --> 00:10:50.665 Why do we release these insider rings and slow rings and stuff? 00:10:50.665 --> 00:10:51.595 And part of it we say, well it's so 00:10:51.595 --> 00:10:53.355 that you can get to see things sooner. 00:10:53.355 --> 00:10:56.210 Well, so you can get to them sooner and you can help us, and 00:10:56.210 --> 00:10:57.040 we can make it better. 00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:59.380 And it's a virtual cycle where we're just gonna go bang, bang, 00:10:59.380 --> 00:11:02.270 bang, and make things better a bunch more rapidly than 00:11:02.270 --> 00:11:05.140 if we said, hey, in about two years, we'll give you something. 00:11:05.140 --> 00:11:05.710 >> We'll give you a beta. 00:11:05.710 --> 00:11:07.270 >> And then you can tell us what you think of it, 00:11:07.270 --> 00:11:08.980 and two years later, we'll improve it. 00:11:08.980 --> 00:11:10.660 So now there's this rapid iteration. 00:11:10.660 --> 00:11:14.850 And so people are always talking about I had this problem. 00:11:14.850 --> 00:11:16.196 And they go well what build? 00:11:16.196 --> 00:11:18.497 I can't remember all of these build numbers, so 00:11:18.497 --> 00:11:19.850 every time I gotta go check. 00:11:19.850 --> 00:11:21.060 And then you gotta sit here and 00:11:21.060 --> 00:11:22.570 you're like you're looking at your phone or something and 00:11:22.570 --> 00:11:24.670 you're typing it in, thus far we give them names. 00:11:24.670 --> 00:11:25.340 >> Yeah, well. 00:11:25.340 --> 00:11:26.180 >> We should. >> Well, 00:11:26.180 --> 00:11:28.790 one other way around this is what they've been working on 00:11:28.790 --> 00:11:29.920 is do the feedback gap. 00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:31.910 So, the Windows Insider feedback, 00:11:31.910 --> 00:11:33.960 that's probably not the name, Feedback Tool. 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.840 This is the problem with names, if you get the names right. 00:11:38.930 --> 00:11:41.500 Let's move back a second. 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:44.230 There a a 40 bug bash going on. 00:11:44.230 --> 00:11:46.340 >> So it all ties together, the idea is that you can actually 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:48.530 get feedback right inside Windows which means you don't 00:11:48.530 --> 00:11:49.520 need to know the version number. 00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:50.230 >> Yes. >> Hence my 00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:51.930 confusion would away. 00:11:51.930 --> 00:11:52.750 And right now. 00:11:52.750 --> 00:11:53.711 >> Right now, yeah so. 00:11:53.711 --> 00:11:56.415 >> Right now they are doing a big push to get a ton of bugs. 00:11:56.415 --> 00:11:58.720 >> As this airs, it will still be on a few days later. 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.250 It will be over but it won't be the last I'm sure. 00:12:01.250 --> 00:12:03.100 They actually are looking for 00:12:03.100 --> 00:12:05.960 specifically targeted feedback and so they do that 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:09.560 in the way of quests which if you are an RPG gamer. 00:12:09.560 --> 00:12:11.030 We love quests. 00:12:11.030 --> 00:12:12.336 But these will be targeted for 00:12:12.336 --> 00:12:15.980 certain scenarios that we wanna get your feedback on explicitly. 00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:18.070 And so there is things you can go and walk through, 00:12:18.070 --> 00:12:21.058 certain apps, certain pass view multiple apps. 00:12:21.058 --> 00:12:23.010 And then, when you file that feedback, 00:12:23.010 --> 00:12:26.830 we'll get it with so much detail already attached that you don't 00:12:26.830 --> 00:12:28.100 have to worry about. 00:12:28.100 --> 00:12:29.710 So you don't have to worry about what builds, 00:12:29.710 --> 00:12:32.870 what your steps were, what was going on in the memory stack. 00:12:32.870 --> 00:12:37.340 Everything that necessary to make better software 00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:39.920 is automatically attached, submitted, archived. 00:12:39.920 --> 00:12:43.140 You can go back and view all the feedback that other people have 00:12:43.140 --> 00:12:45.950 submitted and you can upload and 00:12:45.950 --> 00:12:50.600 we can say, show you affinity to certain scenarios or problems. 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:51.960 And help those get fixed, so 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:53.170 that you can have a better product, and 00:12:53.170 --> 00:12:55.890 we can help, you can help us make you a better product. 00:12:55.890 --> 00:12:57.890 So, the bug bash is going on now. 00:12:57.890 --> 00:13:00.660 Gabe All has a write up about that. 00:13:00.660 --> 00:13:02.660 And I'm sure it won't be the last one. 00:13:02.660 --> 00:13:04.490 No, well this is something I didn't know about. 00:13:04.490 --> 00:13:06.900 These quests and things like that so looking through this. 00:13:06.900 --> 00:13:09.070 I guess that's an ongoing feature. 00:13:09.070 --> 00:13:12.300 >> If you get on the Xbox insider program for a while, 00:13:12.300 --> 00:13:13.980 you've probably seen them there. 00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:15.291 Again universal Windows, 00:13:15.291 --> 00:13:18.312 we're getting these concepts across everywhere that work one 00:13:18.312 --> 00:13:20.715 place they're going to work across everywhere. 00:13:20.715 --> 00:13:22.736 >> Cool, so moving away from Windows so 00:13:22.736 --> 00:13:25.928 one of the other big things that was announced recently and 00:13:25.928 --> 00:13:29.123 there is so much news this days like I said because of things 00:13:29.123 --> 00:13:30.580 like build now evolving. 00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:34.002 And just in general from some of this teams now I think is part 00:13:34.002 --> 00:13:37.424 of the openness, the pace at which they release reviews and 00:13:37.424 --> 00:13:40.709 updates and here is what a version what we are doing next, 00:13:40.709 --> 00:13:43.600 it seems much faster then before. 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.040 Yeah and so one of the things that Visual Studio released and 00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:48.960 there's many things in visual studio, 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:53.360 I hate the name Visual Studio 15 because 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:55.920 it's Visual Studio 2015 and it's confusing. 00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:58.105 >> Have you ever edited your own solution file and 00:13:58.105 --> 00:14:00.524 looked at the dev [CROSSTALK] totally messes you up. 00:14:00.524 --> 00:14:04.010 >> I know that there was dev 14 and I get that. 00:14:04.010 --> 00:14:04.940 But it's still confusing. 00:14:04.940 --> 00:14:07.080 >> Absolutely. >> When I see notices about 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.870 Visual Studio 15, and I'm like, yeah, I got that already. 00:14:10.870 --> 00:14:12.500 Wait, this is something else. 00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:13.910 >> Not 2015. >> Anyways, 00:14:13.910 --> 00:14:15.800 one of the things that they really brought up was that 00:14:15.800 --> 00:14:18.180 they're starting to realize that as a part like this grows, 00:14:18.180 --> 00:14:19.200 it has all sorts of dependencies. 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.000 So I assume if you're watching this, 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.090 you've probably installed VisualStudio before. 00:14:23.090 --> 00:14:24.870 You get that tree of options, right? 00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:25.890 Do you want to include C++, 00:14:25.890 --> 00:14:27.660 do you want to include the Windows SDK, 00:14:27.660 --> 00:14:28.860 do you want to include F#. 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:30.330 All these things. 00:14:30.330 --> 00:14:31.190 And it's quite a bit. 00:14:31.190 --> 00:14:33.990 And if you check it all off, there's gigs and 00:14:33.990 --> 00:14:36.850 gigs of files that have to get downloaded. 00:14:36.850 --> 00:14:39.790 >> But the problem is even if you check down to the minimum, 00:14:39.790 --> 00:14:41.010 it's still pretty big. 00:14:41.010 --> 00:14:43.190 So in Visual Studio 15, 00:14:43.190 --> 00:14:47.030 they put quotes around it, that's completely accurate. 00:14:47.030 --> 00:14:47.840 >> Yes. >> And 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.540 you know probably brand specific you 00:14:50.540 --> 00:14:53.640 can get a very minimum install and honestly I don't know 00:14:53.640 --> 00:14:56.160 how solid it is because of the nature of the install. 00:14:56.160 --> 00:14:58.160 Is that it's grabbing the files as it goes. 00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:01.030 So I don't know if there's any numbers in the article. 00:15:01.030 --> 00:15:03.790 But sort of what's cool is we have an article here that goes 00:15:03.790 --> 00:15:05.600 through why. 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.460 Like there's lots of good reasons. 00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:08.630 But it's not a big shocker. 00:15:08.630 --> 00:15:11.740 But then how, how did they separate out these appendices so 00:15:11.740 --> 00:15:14.980 that they could give you a good editor experience 00:15:14.980 --> 00:15:16.790 with the minimum amount of time. 00:15:16.790 --> 00:15:17.450 >> They do have a number. 00:15:17.450 --> 00:15:19.150 You wanna take a guess? 00:15:19.150 --> 00:15:20.270 >> What is was before? 00:15:20.270 --> 00:15:22.350 >> What they're aiming for. 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:23.260 >> 1 gb. >> 325 mb. See? 00:15:23.260 --> 00:15:24.370 >> That's pretty good. 00:15:24.370 --> 00:15:27.000 >> That's nice, that's nice. 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:27.530 >> It is. 00:15:27.530 --> 00:15:29.890 >> That's much better than gigs and gigs. 00:15:29.890 --> 00:15:31.040 >> Somewhat related to that, 00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:34.790 I have been spending a lot of time in VS code lately. 00:15:34.790 --> 00:15:35.340 >> Yes. 00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:39.730 >> And I hadn't used it because normally doing dev on something 00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:42.540 like tel9 and I got visual studio I'm fine, but 00:15:42.540 --> 00:15:44.910 everybody's like code's amazing you should try it and 00:15:44.910 --> 00:15:47.660 I had to do a whole ton of work recently with 00:15:47.660 --> 00:15:51.560 a whole bunch of node.js stuff and a bunch of mark down stuff. 00:15:51.560 --> 00:15:55.160 I'll use VS code, cuz people say it's great, it's awesome. 00:15:55.160 --> 00:15:57.760 And it's nothing particularly spectacular. 00:15:57.760 --> 00:15:59.470 It's just even little things like being able to 00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:01.525 right click on a folder and just say opening code. 00:16:01.525 --> 00:16:02.660 >> Mm-hm. >> And now I have that entire 00:16:02.660 --> 00:16:04.880 directory there as if it was like a project. 00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:07.760 That kind of functionality is one of the things 00:16:07.760 --> 00:16:09.600 that they're moving towards in Visual Studios as well. 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:11.120 So, if you have your tool of choice, 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:12.620 you're not going to be like, 00:16:12.620 --> 00:16:15.300 well I need to have this to get these functionality and this. 00:16:15.300 --> 00:16:16.350 >> They’re bringing these things together. 00:16:16.350 --> 00:16:18.180 They are bringing all sorts of functionality 00:16:18.180 --> 00:16:20.590 that people really like from one into the other as well. 00:16:20.590 --> 00:16:21.260 So, cool stuff. 00:16:21.260 --> 00:16:24.050 >> Yeah, along with the heavy kind of footprint there’s no 00:16:24.050 --> 00:16:25.770 licensing or anything or purchasing. 00:16:25.770 --> 00:16:28.620 It’s just, they’re all the free editions of Visual Studio 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:29.410 that are fantastic. 00:16:29.410 --> 00:16:32.760 This just dumps on whatever OS you’re running, 00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:33.970 whatever machine you’re on. 00:16:33.970 --> 00:16:36.160 >> Yeah, I think if we were ever to do an analysis on my machine, 00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:39.290 the number one app I run is probably Notepad. 00:16:39.290 --> 00:16:42.800 Maybe that's boring, real dev's, notepad, ++. 00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:45.750 But I fire up notepad all the time just to quickly dump 00:16:45.750 --> 00:16:46.390 text in. 00:16:46.390 --> 00:16:48.870 Sometimes I use it as like a little clipboard ring almost. 00:16:48.870 --> 00:16:50.520 >> I copy step traces in there all the time. 00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:52.550 >> Right so Notepad is running all the time. 00:16:52.550 --> 00:16:55.430 So often what I'm using notepad for is I just need to open up 00:16:55.430 --> 00:16:57.640 this little ht HTML file and I just want to tweak something or 00:16:57.640 --> 00:16:59.630 look at something, and I can use code for that now. 00:16:59.630 --> 00:17:00.130 >> Sure. >> Because it's in 00:17:00.130 --> 00:17:02.340 the Explorer integrated, so I just click code, it's awesome. 00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:06.450 >> One of the things we announced which was quite 00:17:06.450 --> 00:17:09.870 a shock to several people was the Windows subsystem for Linux. 00:17:09.870 --> 00:17:12.070 No one saw it coming. 00:17:12.070 --> 00:17:15.240 >> Yeah, the ability to run your, 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:19.560 if you are a developer who runs on, whose used to Mac OS, or 00:17:19.560 --> 00:17:21.970 directly on Linux, rather I should say. 00:17:21.970 --> 00:17:25.623 You're used to kind of your aux [INAUDIBLE], 00:17:25.623 --> 00:17:27.950 then [INAUDIBLE] fun stuff just running, 00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:30.320 running natively on the Windows subsystem for Linux. 00:17:30.320 --> 00:17:32.010 >> Yep. >> And it's done in a very 00:17:32.010 --> 00:17:32.980 intricate way. 00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:36.560 One that I can't describe appropriately probably. 00:17:36.560 --> 00:17:39.762 I am definitely not good enough to, 00:17:39.762 --> 00:17:42.840 but Thomas has this fantastic article 00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:45.130 called the Windows Subsystem for Linux overview. 00:17:45.130 --> 00:17:46.470 Exactly what it sounds like. 00:17:46.470 --> 00:17:49.930 But it goes into everything about the user session manager. 00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:52.280 The whole instance life cycle. 00:17:52.280 --> 00:17:54.590 How separate things like your package managers are going to 00:17:54.590 --> 00:17:58.040 interact with the UNIX subsystem but also Windows. 00:17:58.040 --> 00:17:59.564 It's a whole new kind of world. 00:17:59.564 --> 00:18:03.201 This is on again something that we're requesting a ton of 00:18:03.201 --> 00:18:05.777 feedback for since it's so brand new and 00:18:05.777 --> 00:18:07.845 opens the gates to all sorts of. 00:18:07.845 --> 00:18:10.860 >> Yep and there's also are build 2016 videos on this one. 00:18:10.860 --> 00:18:11.460 At least for sure, 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:14.590 I think some of these prerecorded session as well. 00:18:14.590 --> 00:18:17.380 But one that was at the event that goes to detail has demo 00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:20.270 because it was a live video. 00:18:20.270 --> 00:18:23.820 And then I think there's a recent video from Seth as well 00:18:23.820 --> 00:18:25.740 where they talk about this in detail. 00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:29.960 And similar to Mark, I couldn't explain how it works or why. 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:31.470 I know what the experience is like and 00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:33.120 I understand the benefits but 00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:35.120 if you're into that, especially if you're, I don't know, 00:18:35.120 --> 00:18:37.710 it's a long time since I took my operating system course 00:18:37.710 --> 00:18:38.810 in university. 00:18:38.810 --> 00:18:41.250 But if you're interested in seeing how they manage to work 00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:44.100 the details there are posting it all up and they understand that 00:18:44.100 --> 00:18:47.790 people want to know is this just some emulation and it's like 00:18:47.790 --> 00:18:50.940 now it goes into deep detail on how that actually works. 00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:55.390 >> Cool, friend of the show Rick Barraza has a, 00:18:55.390 --> 00:18:57.250 I think it's a series of video. 00:18:57.250 --> 00:18:59.180 >> Yes. >> It is a series of videos, and 00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:01.820 there will be more, actually, about AI, mixed reality, and 00:19:01.820 --> 00:19:03.300 the new software landscape, 00:19:03.300 --> 00:19:05.540 specifically from a design perspective. 00:19:05.540 --> 00:19:10.250 Because working in 3D does change the way you do things. 00:19:10.250 --> 00:19:14.590 You can just put a 2D interface on top of a Volume metric, 00:19:14.590 --> 00:19:17.390 or 3D experience, it's not good. 00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:20.050 For example, you walk the side of a 2D object, and 00:19:20.050 --> 00:19:21.180 it disappears. 00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:23.460 And many using drop downs, and things like that. 00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:24.420 There's just not need for 00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:27.150 those when you have a third dimension to work in. 00:19:27.150 --> 00:19:30.380 You can interact with world, in the world, 00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:32.880 in a more natural way that you're used to. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.700 And, move from there, instead of having this kind of abstraction 00:19:36.700 --> 00:19:37.890 from what you wanna do. 00:19:37.890 --> 00:19:40.395 So if you're interested at all in mixed reality, 00:19:40.395 --> 00:19:43.496 virtual reality, or any of that stuff, which you should be, 00:19:43.496 --> 00:19:44.465 it's super cool. 00:19:44.465 --> 00:19:46.154 Definitely check out this video. 00:19:46.154 --> 00:19:49.030 And from the original feedback we got, 00:19:49.030 --> 00:19:53.126 he will be producing additional set coming up shortly, 00:19:53.126 --> 00:19:57.310 going more in detail about individual subjects. 00:19:57.310 --> 00:19:59.584 >> From this video, go to his name, take a look around, 00:19:59.584 --> 00:20:01.368 he has done other videos related to this. 00:20:01.368 --> 00:20:06.308 Rick is a design evangelist, and he was on Coding4Fun before. 00:20:06.308 --> 00:20:06.868 >> Yeah. 00:20:06.868 --> 00:20:08.596 >> So worked with channel nine for a long time and 00:20:08.596 --> 00:20:11.007 one of the big things they often did was produce user interfaces 00:20:11.007 --> 00:20:12.600 that were kind of interesting. 00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:13.490 And you think back to 00:20:13.490 --> 00:20:15.525 the Boxing Robots and- >> [LAUGH] 00:20:15.525 --> 00:20:17.026 >> What was the game where they 00:20:17.026 --> 00:20:19.733 had the two things and there was fireballs? 00:20:19.733 --> 00:20:20.600 >> Yeah. 00:20:20.600 --> 00:20:21.638 >> Meteor? >> I don't remember what 00:20:21.638 --> 00:20:22.380 it's called. 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:23.090 >> Something like that. 00:20:23.090 --> 00:20:25.570 Anyways, the point being is this has always been his thing. 00:20:25.570 --> 00:20:28.320 And what's interesting about these videos is he's not here 00:20:28.320 --> 00:20:29.870 necessarily teaching you how to code. 00:20:29.870 --> 00:20:32.188 He's just talking about it from the point of view of almost 00:20:32.188 --> 00:20:34.459 like, how should we think differently about design with 00:20:34.459 --> 00:20:35.848 these new things available to us. 00:20:35.848 --> 00:20:36.808 So it's fascinating stuff. 00:20:36.808 --> 00:20:38.620 >> Right. 00:20:38.620 --> 00:20:42.245 >> And we're happy he's putting it up on the site, cool. 00:20:42.245 --> 00:20:46.795 >> Speaking of mixed reality, the Microsoft HoloLens 00:20:46.795 --> 00:20:51.105 development edition started shipping to developers at build, 00:20:51.105 --> 00:20:52.985 essentially, that same time frame. 00:20:52.985 --> 00:20:54.985 And people are getting their hands on it, and 00:20:54.985 --> 00:20:57.195 actually have already seen a bunch of videos popping up of 00:20:57.195 --> 00:20:58.355 people creating some stuff. 00:20:58.355 --> 00:20:59.780 It's exciting to see. 00:20:59.780 --> 00:21:02.450 If you ever wanna see the inside of a HoloLens, 00:21:02.450 --> 00:21:03.920 this is your chance. 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.480 Tom Warren over at the Verge has an extensive article that was 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.802 posted up from his experience at Build with a full teardown. 00:21:10.802 --> 00:21:14.810 So you'll see every part down to the baggy of screws that held 00:21:14.810 --> 00:21:15.780 everything together. 00:21:17.590 --> 00:21:21.008 The way the batteries are connected, all of the sensors, 00:21:21.008 --> 00:21:22.348 everything in there. 00:21:22.348 --> 00:21:24.608 >> Now just as a funny side note. 00:21:24.608 --> 00:21:25.488 >> Mm-hm. 00:21:25.488 --> 00:21:28.724 >> So Mark had a lot to do with some HoloLens stuff at one 00:21:28.724 --> 00:21:29.360 point. 00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:30.350 >> Something to do with some. 00:21:30.350 --> 00:21:32.550 >> Yeah, I don't wanna get into details or whatever. 00:21:32.550 --> 00:21:34.165 But when he first saw this picture- 00:21:34.165 --> 00:21:34.490 >> [LAUGH] 00:21:34.490 --> 00:21:35.781 >> His immediate thought was 00:21:35.781 --> 00:21:37.368 that somebody had just done it. 00:21:37.368 --> 00:21:40.448 Someone had go their Dev 1 or whatever, and had just tore it. 00:21:40.448 --> 00:21:43.248 >> It was little [CROSSTALK] [SOUND]. 00:21:43.248 --> 00:21:44.609 >> And the thought of someone, I mean people do that, 00:21:44.609 --> 00:21:45.780 they do tear down and try to look at- 00:21:45.780 --> 00:21:47.380 >> He knows it's gonna happen. 00:21:47.380 --> 00:21:49.760 >> But it's so many parts and so 00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:52.560 many pieces, and it was done in such detail 00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:55.260 that it's sort of good to know that this was actually done by 00:21:55.260 --> 00:21:57.000 people who probably know how to disassemble it and 00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:58.800 put it back together and how things work. 00:21:58.800 --> 00:22:00.250 Or maybe they wouldn't even put it back together. 00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:01.568 >> It was actually done by us. >> Right. 00:22:01.568 --> 00:22:06.354 >> We actually left reporters in rooms with HoloLenses completely 00:22:06.354 --> 00:22:09.986 alone to do whatever they want because, again, 00:22:09.986 --> 00:22:12.128 I mean it's ready to go out. 00:22:12.128 --> 00:22:12.848 >> Right. 00:22:12.848 --> 00:22:13.528 >> It's in people's hands. 00:22:13.528 --> 00:22:14.188 >> Right. 00:22:14.188 --> 00:22:14.803 >> Along with that, 00:22:14.803 --> 00:22:16.402 there was a completely torn down one in there so 00:22:16.402 --> 00:22:18.430 that they could go through all the parts. 00:22:18.430 --> 00:22:20.509 And without having to go through the trouble of getting one of 00:22:20.509 --> 00:22:22.670 the very premium, and there's plenty of people on the waiting 00:22:22.670 --> 00:22:23.868 list still waiting for their's. 00:22:23.868 --> 00:22:24.448 >> Right. 00:22:24.448 --> 00:22:26.217 >> It would be a shame to destroy one. 00:22:26.217 --> 00:22:29.238 >> Right, it's like those people who get the very first new phone 00:22:29.238 --> 00:22:30.018 or something >> And 00:22:30.018 --> 00:22:31.320 put it under a hydraulic press. 00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:32.490 >> Yeah, or blend it or something. 00:22:32.490 --> 00:22:33.466 And it's very disturbing. 00:22:33.466 --> 00:22:34.464 >> Hydraulic press is the new blend it. 00:22:34.464 --> 00:22:35.024 >> Is it? 00:22:35.024 --> 00:22:35.724 >> Yeah. 00:22:35.724 --> 00:22:36.639 >> I'm not up to date on my destroying of 00:22:36.639 --> 00:22:37.444 [CROSSTALK] expensive objects. 00:22:37.444 --> 00:22:39.600 >> That's the old and busted. 00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:40.680 Literally, old and busted. 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.598 Well literally busted. 00:22:42.598 --> 00:22:43.178 >> Crazy stuff. 00:22:43.178 --> 00:22:45.467 >> [SOUND] >> So continuing on, 00:22:45.467 --> 00:22:48.372 this actually is related in some ways to, 00:22:48.372 --> 00:22:50.980 once again, our future theme. 00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:54.990 But a lot of things are changing and there's a great article here 00:22:54.990 --> 00:22:58.580 and it's part of this stories section of the Microsoft site 00:22:58.580 --> 00:23:01.840 that I find kind of fascinating cuz they're sort of long form 00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:04.520 articles where they're exploring sort of 00:23:04.520 --> 00:23:07.650 concepts more than they are products and things like that. 00:23:07.650 --> 00:23:10.630 And I think that's always a good thing to do, I think it's great 00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:14.000 to look at where things are going instead of just look, 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.910 we have version six of this and it's got these five features, 00:23:16.910 --> 00:23:21.030 which is also important, but to take a look at what's changing. 00:23:21.030 --> 00:23:24.280 And one of the big things that this article talks about 00:23:24.280 --> 00:23:28.073 is it sort of happened slowly, but now we kinda just 00:23:28.073 --> 00:23:31.950 accept the idea that with the cloud and things like that, 00:23:31.950 --> 00:23:35.460 we move from device to device, our data's still there. 00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:39.800 Even Mark and I, we've got our slides here and our plan. 00:23:39.800 --> 00:23:42.160 This isn't the computer we worked on them on. 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.129 We didn't have, 00:23:43.129 --> 00:23:46.238 either one of us had the deck on us when we came in the room. 00:23:46.238 --> 00:23:47.543 And we realized we could bring it up 00:23:47.543 --> 00:23:48.758 on our phone if we wanted to, and 00:23:48.758 --> 00:23:51.120 we could have been doing it on there, bring it up on here. 00:23:51.120 --> 00:23:53.800 That's a tiny thing, it's just some dock sharing, but 00:23:53.800 --> 00:23:57.780 imagine how much of a change it is in the world. 00:23:57.780 --> 00:23:59.800 Like the telemetry from your apps, 00:23:59.800 --> 00:24:01.050 you're wearing a band or whatever. 00:24:01.050 --> 00:24:03.630 All that data is just flowing and syncing and 00:24:03.630 --> 00:24:06.080 being used by this app, and that app. 00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:06.638 And it changes things. 00:24:06.638 --> 00:24:11.938 And I think most users are already taking it for granted. 00:24:11.938 --> 00:24:14.578 >> Yeah, and you wouldn't, not in a bad sense. 00:24:14.578 --> 00:24:17.018 But in a way that it's invisible. 00:24:17.018 --> 00:24:19.040 And actually that's what's called The Invisible Revolution. 00:24:19.040 --> 00:24:21.040 A lot of it is happening behind the scenes. 00:24:21.040 --> 00:24:23.980 Processing power, Moore's laws, kind of at its end. 00:24:25.550 --> 00:24:28.570 Transistors are just not getting smaller. 00:24:28.570 --> 00:24:30.230 We're at the very ends of that. 00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:33.470 We're not doubling the amount in any kind of chip set. 00:24:33.470 --> 00:24:37.130 Number of cores is still hovering around four, eight. 00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:41.010 Servers have some more, but it's all very specialized things. 00:24:41.010 --> 00:24:42.780 So now it's more about offloading and 00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:45.450 more thin clients and offline computation or 00:24:45.450 --> 00:24:47.650 even real time computation in the cloud. 00:24:47.650 --> 00:24:50.360 Where we have this elastic femoral 00:24:50.360 --> 00:24:53.480 kind of services that can spin up, do a bunch of work, 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:55.960 channel 9 has been doing this for awhile but 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.570 it was all very custom coded where we have an events, 00:24:58.570 --> 00:25:02.375 we'd have 140 hours of video, so a bunch of services spin up. 00:25:02.375 --> 00:25:04.485 >> Right. >> Show them and spin down. 00:25:04.485 --> 00:25:06.330 >> Yep. >> But now this is all coming to 00:25:06.330 --> 00:25:08.555 in a commercial turnkey, almost. 00:25:08.555 --> 00:25:11.505 >> And it's interesting is that the idea someone 00:25:11.505 --> 00:25:14.750 recently on one of the teams sent me a note saying, hey, 00:25:14.750 --> 00:25:16.100 by the way, how do I buy a server? 00:25:17.380 --> 00:25:20.880 And my first reaction was, so hold on, let's back up, 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.490 what are you doing and why are you buying a server? 00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:25.830 And what were you gonna do with this, where were you gonna put, 00:25:25.830 --> 00:25:26.970 what are you doing? 00:25:26.970 --> 00:25:29.950 Cuz we have, even if you're not using the cloud, 00:25:29.950 --> 00:25:31.120 people have on-premise Hyper-V. 00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:34.000 They have all sorts of things where basically this 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.580 idea of computing power is just a resource that we get more of, 00:25:38.580 --> 00:25:40.610 less of, get rid of when we don't need it. 00:25:40.610 --> 00:25:41.470 And it changes a lot of things. 00:25:41.470 --> 00:25:42.920 So anyways, it's a great article. 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:47.180 Goes into just the kind of effect this has on people's 00:25:47.180 --> 00:25:48.350 interaction with technology and 00:25:48.350 --> 00:25:50.080 how it will affect how people dev stuff. 00:25:50.080 --> 00:25:50.930 So it's cool stuff. 00:25:52.300 --> 00:25:55.177 >> It's great because one of my first roles here was 00:25:55.177 --> 00:25:57.880 an SDET, which basically meant I was 00:25:57.880 --> 00:25:59.850 a part of the test automation team. 00:25:59.850 --> 00:26:02.560 I did, that was part of my role was specing out servers we 00:26:02.560 --> 00:26:03.860 needed for our test rigs. 00:26:03.860 --> 00:26:04.938 >> Right. >> And just the other day, 00:26:04.938 --> 00:26:07.747 I emailed our IT department and said, hey, I need a new VM, and 00:26:07.747 --> 00:26:10.778 30 minutes later, he replies and here you go, you're an admin. 00:26:10.778 --> 00:26:12.350 >> Yeah. 00:26:12.350 --> 00:26:14.020 >> So much easier, so much nicer, and so 00:26:14.020 --> 00:26:15.020 much easier on their end, too. 00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:16.150 They don't have to go and 00:26:16.150 --> 00:26:18.030 literally install anything in Iraq or anything. 00:26:18.030 --> 00:26:19.210 >> And we're not at the point yet, 00:26:19.210 --> 00:26:21.930 at least I'm not, I still dev on an actual machine. 00:26:21.930 --> 00:26:23.780 I can work offline, that kind of stuff. 00:26:23.780 --> 00:26:27.060 The idea of connecting to a VM and doing it there. 00:26:27.060 --> 00:26:29.030 It's not just a someday sort of thing, 00:26:29.030 --> 00:26:30.640 I know there are teams that do that. 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:31.750 It's not me. 00:26:31.750 --> 00:26:34.160 I like to have a machine I can use on the plane and such. 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:37.980 But still, there is a path there towards 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:40.910 being able to potentially go from device to device and 00:26:40.910 --> 00:26:43.720 still access even the same apps that you had installed. 00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:46.278 >> Well you used to carry around a much larger laptop for work. 00:26:46.278 --> 00:26:47.350 >> I did, I did. 00:26:47.350 --> 00:26:49.370 >> So that's definitely been at least an improvement. 00:26:49.370 --> 00:26:52.647 >> It's now docked and it doesn't move, so, but, 00:26:52.647 --> 00:26:53.590 continue on. 00:26:53.590 --> 00:26:55.830 >> We are not at our picks of the week. 00:26:55.830 --> 00:26:59.680 So my pick of the week is the API catalogue. 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.680 >> So in the edge development blog, 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.590 they just posted about this thing that started internally. 00:27:06.590 --> 00:27:10.460 They needed a way to compare the API support of 00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:14.620 edge to the API support of the w3cp specifications. 00:27:14.620 --> 00:27:18.479 And then they also built it out to test out agnostically any 00:27:18.479 --> 00:27:19.198 browser. 00:27:19.198 --> 00:27:21.731 So there's these tools and they've released them and 00:27:21.731 --> 00:27:23.060 they released all the data. 00:27:23.060 --> 00:27:27.572 And there's this wonderful Venn diagram here that shows exactly 00:27:27.572 --> 00:27:29.540 just the situation we're in. 00:27:29.540 --> 00:27:31.458 Everyone says, this supports this, this supports that. 00:27:31.458 --> 00:27:32.098 >> Right. 00:27:32.098 --> 00:27:34.422 >> Everything supports a little bit of something and 00:27:34.422 --> 00:27:35.418 there's overlap and 00:27:35.418 --> 00:27:38.296 there's plenty of stuff that works everywhere and just plain 00:27:38.296 --> 00:27:41.050 stuff that only still works in one of each of the browsers. 00:27:41.050 --> 00:27:43.760 >> A lot of it experimental, a lot of it kind of new and fresh, 00:27:43.760 --> 00:27:47.040 like real time communication, WebSockets, and stuff like that, 00:27:47.040 --> 00:27:48.760 that have been iterated over a while. 00:27:48.760 --> 00:27:51.371 But it's very interesting to have kind of this real 00:27:51.371 --> 00:27:53.950 time, be able to delve into the details of specifically what 00:27:53.950 --> 00:27:56.020 APIs are supported and have it automated so 00:27:56.020 --> 00:27:58.280 that you can just know. 00:27:58.280 --> 00:27:59.840 >> And tied to that, you can get lists. 00:27:59.840 --> 00:28:02.410 Like if you are interested in knowing, for a particular 00:28:02.410 --> 00:28:05.200 specific specification, how broadly is this available? 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:06.290 >> Yes. >> And so, 00:28:06.290 --> 00:28:08.420 if you're doing something on the site, 00:28:08.420 --> 00:28:10.030 is it worth, do I need a poly fill? 00:28:10.030 --> 00:28:11.540 Do I need to worry about this? 00:28:11.540 --> 00:28:13.910 Can I go ahead and just use it? 00:28:13.910 --> 00:28:14.800 And you get that kind of thing. 00:28:14.800 --> 00:28:17.570 And one of the things that you'll see when you look at it 00:28:17.570 --> 00:28:20.330 is, no one I could be wrong, 00:28:20.330 --> 00:28:22.890 but as far as I know, no one implements all of the specs. 00:28:22.890 --> 00:28:23.790 >> Yeah no, no. 00:28:23.790 --> 00:28:26.098 >> So when often sometimes people will be like, 00:28:26.098 --> 00:28:28.405 they will be upset at a particular browser and 00:28:28.405 --> 00:28:30.848 they'll say hey, that's in the spec, yeah. 00:28:30.848 --> 00:28:33.333 It's always a moving target and people, 00:28:33.333 --> 00:28:35.748 almost no one has implemented them all. 00:28:35.748 --> 00:28:38.635 I don't even know if everyone implemented them all for HTML4, 00:28:38.635 --> 00:28:41.370 and now, of course, new things are coming out all the time. 00:28:41.370 --> 00:28:44.080 So it is always involving, which is what makes being a web 00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:46.470 developer such a fun and exciting thing to be. 00:28:46.470 --> 00:28:47.400 >> I enjoy it. 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:48.030 >> Yeah, me too. 00:28:49.100 --> 00:28:51.730 Cool, and then somewhat related to that, 00:28:51.730 --> 00:28:54.350 my pick of the week is something called axe. 00:28:54.350 --> 00:28:57.950 And so, >> Your axe. 00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:00.515 >> If you follow accessibility topics, 00:29:00.515 --> 00:29:03.728 you probably will have heard of Marcie Sutton. 00:29:03.728 --> 00:29:06.428 She's a developer, does a lot of things with accessibility work. 00:29:06.428 --> 00:29:09.085 And one of the things that, and I don't know how much of the dev 00:29:09.085 --> 00:29:10.824 work was her versus other people's, so 00:29:10.824 --> 00:29:12.688 I won't try to give the wrong credit here. 00:29:12.688 --> 00:29:16.261 But she's been pointing out this large tool kit that she was part 00:29:16.261 --> 00:29:17.128 of called axe. 00:29:17.128 --> 00:29:20.342 And what's interesting here is that accessibility testing 00:29:20.342 --> 00:29:22.048 involves a lot of manual steps. 00:29:22.048 --> 00:29:26.919 And so one of the arguments in some cases against making sites 00:29:26.919 --> 00:29:31.886 correctly accessible, is that people don't have the time or 00:29:31.886 --> 00:29:34.820 the ability to do good testing. 00:29:34.820 --> 00:29:37.800 And what we all want in the end these days, I think, is you want 00:29:37.800 --> 00:29:40.180 these things integrated into your automated test. 00:29:40.180 --> 00:29:41.830 >> Yeah. >> So as you have your multiple 00:29:41.830 --> 00:29:44.520 people, they're checking code, things are changing. 00:29:44.520 --> 00:29:46.910 You wanna always be able to iterate that. 00:29:46.910 --> 00:29:49.380 There have been scanners before that will look at things like 00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:52.350 HTML and will tell you, hey look here's all the issues, but 00:29:52.350 --> 00:29:55.350 it's actually quite complicated in an interactive site. 00:29:55.350 --> 00:29:56.630 So imagine like an angular site or 00:29:56.630 --> 00:29:58.530 something like that, things are coming in. 00:29:58.530 --> 00:30:00.335 New markups coming in that wasn't there. 00:30:00.335 --> 00:30:03.070 It's not part of the files, it's not there at all. 00:30:03.070 --> 00:30:05.410 And so to test the functionality, 00:30:05.410 --> 00:30:08.018 we often move to things like selenium and things like that. 00:30:08.018 --> 00:30:10.640 Well this toolkit allows you to bring in accessibility 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:12.210 testing to that as well. 00:30:12.210 --> 00:30:14.980 So it's a little involved, you have to actually add things to 00:30:14.980 --> 00:30:18.660 your test harnesses and to your test work to do it. 00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:22.460 But the end result is that now, as you're iterating and 00:30:22.460 --> 00:30:26.170 adding functionality in addition to all your other tests, 00:30:26.170 --> 00:30:29.900 you're gonna know hey, if I increased, reduced, or 00:30:29.900 --> 00:30:33.090 broken the accessibility compliance of my site. 00:30:33.090 --> 00:30:34.060 I think that's amazing. 00:30:34.060 --> 00:30:37.590 I think anything that helps work accessibility testing into 00:30:37.590 --> 00:30:41.490 the actual work flow of people's development is a good thing. 00:30:41.490 --> 00:30:42.370 >> Absolutely, 00:30:42.370 --> 00:30:45.510 people worry about, does this work on the browsers? 00:30:45.510 --> 00:30:46.680 But we should really be worrying about, 00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:47.830 does this work for everyone? 00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:50.300 >> It's all of the same sort of thing. 00:30:50.300 --> 00:30:51.630 And bringing that in and 00:30:51.630 --> 00:30:53.895 actually, just to throw all the way back to the beginning. 00:30:53.895 --> 00:30:55.910 >> [LAUGH] >> When it comes to apps, 00:30:55.910 --> 00:30:59.130 the Xamarin Test Cloud is something they talk about. 00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:00.290 You definitely wanna click on that. 00:31:00.290 --> 00:31:02.080 Take a look. The idea of testing your app 00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:07.840 across 200, sorry that's not right, 2,200 different 00:31:07.840 --> 00:31:11.340 devices simultaneously is something the test cloud can do. 00:31:11.340 --> 00:31:15.850 And so if you're worried about testing across the maybe 40 00:31:15.850 --> 00:31:17.918 versions of a browser that you choose to support. 00:31:17.918 --> 00:31:20.180 Imagine 2,200 devices. 00:31:20.180 --> 00:31:23.508 So all definitely something that you wanna work into the process. 00:31:23.508 --> 00:31:24.690 This axe is 00:31:24.690 --> 00:31:26.470 something that if you're worried about accessibility testing, 00:31:26.470 --> 00:31:29.300 and you should be, you can work into your development as well. 00:31:29.300 --> 00:31:30.230 >> Fantastic. 00:31:30.230 --> 00:31:31.030 >> Cool. >> That wraps it up for 00:31:31.030 --> 00:31:32.380 this week on Channel 9. 00:31:32.380 --> 00:31:33.330 Thanks for coming along. 00:31:33.330 --> 00:31:35.942 Hope you can jump in the seat once in a while. 00:31:35.942 --> 00:31:37.560 Well I'll try, we'll see what people say. 00:31:37.560 --> 00:31:40.840 >> [LAUGH] Thanks and see you guys next week. 00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:50.840 [MUSIC]