Zoe Goldring and Gretchen Ledgard - What is it like to interview at Microsoft?

I first heard "managed" when .NET came out. So managed code is anything thar runs inside the CLR. C# is managed, VB.net is managed, MSIL is managed. VB6 is NOT managed.Beer28 wrote:So my question is, does managed mean VM managed in general, or does it mean MSIL?
I don't believe so. The JIT compiler does create native x86 instructions from MSIL ... then I guess at some point run those instructions.Beer28 wrote:Is the CLR just a big CPU emulation machine?
What's to stop you from throwing together a BSD machine to play with rotor on?
Also, I think it's important to note that for most people, understanding exactly how the CLR loads a dll (and I mean exactly, it's always good to have a vague understanding) isn't that useful. While you and I may be interested, it's mostly an intellectual curiosity
rather than a deal-breaker when it comes to platform choice.
Beer28 wrote:
Charles wrote:Beer,
Managed code is code that executes in a virtual machine that automatically handles memory allocation and object lifetime among other nifty things.
In our case, this VM is the CLR and this is typically what we mean when you hear us say "managed" code around here.
Perl 5 does it with reference counting, so it too is managed code then, and so is php and python as well as java.
Beer28 wrote:
what about microsoft pcode?
Beer28 wrote:
Because even back to quick basic and pascal, really high level code has been managed. And that goes back for 20 years.
Beer28 wrote:
Charles wrote: Yep. She's shy, as are many people. Not everybody around here feels the need to talk about themselves and what they do effusively, unprovoked.
I'd say that "interrogation" is an entirely incorrect expression for how the interview was conducted.
Blogs are nice because it lets people format and revise what they're going to say before they say it in writing.
At some late night talk shows they will have a rehersal before the actual taping.
Maybe it would make people more comfortable if you gave them a list of questions you're going to ask ahead of time. At least people that are camera shy.
Beer28 wrote:
Charles wrote: When you sit down to have an informal, casual chat with somebody do you give them a list of quetions ahead of time so they know what they are going to say before you ask questions?
We don't do this type of thing on Channel 9, and we won't. Perhaps I need to do a better job of making people feel comfortable. What do you all think? I'd appreciate feedback.
Charles
I noticed you glaringly stare at people with your eyes wide open in most of your interviews, this is a little brutal, but if i was in her chair I'd have been a little freaked out.
I know you may not do this intentionally, but it almost seems like you're bored and want them to finish their answer. Scoble comes across like he just came home from a kegger or a house party. This is also pretty brutal, so Scoble, skip this, Like "woah, that's cool heh heh, here's another question somebody off the street might pose, I'm going to go get some twix out of the vending machine now". It's not totally that way, I'm exagerating it to try to explain what I'm talking about.
So take it or leave it, there's my honest feedback. You guys need to watch some dave letterman, jay leno, or conan obrien. Charles seems on the spot with technical questions that aren't too technical, but lacks the warm character of a good interviewer, and Scoble, he's just Scoble I guess.
I'm not perfect either, so I'm not saying this to ripp on you guys, you asked for feedback.
Beer28 wrote:
are you sure that ansi C is really compiled to MSIL with /CLR
Nah. The effect is from looking back & forth at 2 interviewers ... the shifty eye syndrome. Nixon did the same thing in his debate w/ JFK.rasx wrote:* Suzanne C. seemed extremely tense but that could just be geek non-physicality.
scobleizer wrote:Beer: I'll try to do better.
A lot of times in interviews I'm just trying to mentally keep up with the interviewee.
She's a developer on the .NET CLR team. I'm nowhere near as smart as she is.
scobleizer wrote:My hat is off to Suzanne, though. She's very smart. I think the second part of the video is a little better.
rasx wrote:
In an effort to not accuse you guys of having bad experiences with female interview subjects I cannot avoid making sexist observations. But the great thing about these 'new days' of American "liberty" and "freedom" my sexist remarks are totally insignificant to the "good people of Texas" all over the world.
Beer28 wrote:I think that's scoble in the background
<quote>
15:51
quest: you haven't been writing managed code for your entire career then right? it's only been out for 5 years right?
response: right
quest: so what was the biggest challenge you found getting into the managed world
</quote>
So "managed" has only been out around 5 years, if you're refering to the term which I believe was coined by microsoft. VM managed code has been around for 10+ of years now, and was popularized with Java which has been around almost 10 with it's 1.0-1.1 jdk that was only for solaris and windows.
So my question is, does managed mean VM managed in general, or does it mean MSIL?
Because I hear managed used as a replacement for MSIL alot, then some other people use it to refer to virtual machine runtime managed code.
So since I think MS coined the term, perhaps somebody can clarify.
/*============================================================
**
** File: message.cpp
**
** Purpose: Encapsulates a function call frame into a message
** object with an interface that can enumerate the
** arguments of the message
**
** Date: Mar 5, 1999
**
===========================================================*/
The runtime views everything as a message and the runtime manages these messages. Again, it's pretty clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Zaczek wrote:
rasx wrote:
In an effort to not accuse you guys of having bad experiences with female interview subjects I cannot avoid making sexist observations. But the great thing about these 'new days' of American "liberty" and "freedom" my sexist remarks are totally insignificant to the "good people of Texas" all over the world.
I'm not sure if such comments are part of the solution or part of the problem.
rasx wrote:
My comments were by definition sexist. Your wish is to extend my assertions into the phrase you have been taught, "political correctness." So I agree with you that you are not sure. And I am no "problem" for the "good people of Texas" because I have no nuclear weapons. The data have been transmitted. Please parse the data. Use quotes. Do not use the uncertainty of loyal captivity.
Beer28 wrote:
Paul D. Murphy wrote: dood. every single programming construct - even in a simple program like a console hello world - is an IMessage. Every methodcall, evey constructor call, every property get or set, every event, every delegate. The runtime deals with them all as IMessages. In fact it is accurate to say that all the runtime does is stitch together, resolve and manage messages.
This is the way I understood it from what reading I did on the topic. I tried to compile the rotor source but it had threading that was unique to solaris ./configure reported errors on the build.
So I'm going to look at sun's instead which released 3 builds for different types of systems.
Beer28 wrote:by "some local module call some method or some data", i mean call a method, or reference data, not call bytestring data of course.
When I wrote "data is mapped from metadata", I mean of course it's IL instructions are converted to opcode instructions, then it is mapped, I think that's done on the fly, where only the methods that are immediately going to be called by the module are compiled and their start address put in the lookup table.
As to whether the calls and references are done directly or through a messaging system, you got me, but that's peripheral.
You're actually lucky you got the rotor source to build and breakpoint through it seeing how it works. I'm going to use java when I study VM's because I can break through on my own system with that.
Beer28 wrote:
You can accuse me of being arrogate, even aggregate, but never arrogant!
Beer28 wrote:
So if a module inside an app domain calls a method in itself after it's mapped it doesn't go to the switchboard pointer lookup table mapped from metadata and call the function? It goes through a messaging cycle for call/ret routines? (without remoting or some other network transport marshalling of set types)
more than one year and the video is not available to download