Coffeehouse Thread

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Windows Update required services??

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  • User profile image
    WayneB

    I've been using the Windows Update website since it's inception and it never required me to have certain services running.

    Now it requires that the Automatic Update (AU), BITS, and Event Log services running.

    As a developer I KNOW that these services are not required for the web page to simply send me an executeable over the wire.


    What's up with that Microsoft?? At least give people a choice. Oh wait, I forgot...Microsoft knows what's best for me. (not!)

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    BITS is the Background Intelligent Updater Server. It's used to automatically poll for new downloads and to manage those downloads.

    AU is used to do the actual installation (I believe, though someone correct me if I'm wrong) and Event Log is required to... Log the events.

    None of these are required to be up in order to run the website, are they?

    I can check when I'm at home tonight, if you'd like, but it would be interesting to see the website turn you away just because BITS is off.

  • User profile image
    Manip2

    WayneB wrote:
    As a developer I KNOW that these services are not required for the web page to simply send me an executeable over the wire.


    muhahahah .. if I had a pound for every time I heard that..

    'Develops should be allowed to download any file type though the proxy, we are not children'

    'I need administrator rights on the domain controller.. So I can transfer project updates across..'

    'I removed the anti-virus software because it was interrupting my development work..'

     

     

  • User profile image
    Manip2

    BITs does need to be switched on I know that much. I think that started with V5. I'm not sure if events logger does but it wouldn't shock me..

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    I actually meant to say "besides BITS", because I do believe package delivery happens through BITS.

    I'm going to spend some more time tonight to look into what AU / BITS does as I'm a bit fussy on where each sits and what each does.

  • User profile image
    HellSnoopy

    I think WUv5 now requires the automatic update service to be enabled.

  • User profile image
    WayneB

    BTW, This only happens on XP for some reason.

    Why do they need a Windows Service running all the time, when it will only be used once every 1-2 weeks!?

    Furthermore, they deny use of the website if you don't have all services set to Automatic Startup. I mean, let's get some common sense in here.

    Why does Microsoft need a Windows Service to provide restartable downloads when almost every P2P app, FTP program, etc. provides this in a standard executeable!?!?

    Well, I guess since I can't use the windows update site anymore, it's time to figure out how to get updates manually. Any suggestions?

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    ... Why "can't" you use the WU site anymore?

  • User profile image
    WayneB

    Have you tried to go there with Windows XP yet? It won't let you get updates unless you have those services running AND on Automatic Startup (talk about ridiculous).

    I'm not going to leave AU and BITS services running just because MS wants me to now. Otherwise, everytime I go there I have to turn the services on, do the updates, and then turn them off which is a pain in the butt.

    I want the old update catalog back!

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    I'm just curious as to why you don't want these services running, is all. I mean, I'm not going to force you to do automatic updates but you can easily set the automatic update options to never download and those services will still be running (or does this count as "off" in MS's books).

    Is it because of memory issues?

    I'm not attacking you, just really curious. Personally I set everything to download, and I approve each installation as I'm comfortable with it and sure it won't interfere with my environment.

    What's your philosophy Wayne?

  • User profile image
    Maurits

    WayneB wrote:
    As a developer I KNOW that these services are not required for the web page to simply send me an executeable over the wire.


    WU is becoming less and less a web page, and more and more a place for the ActiveX plugin (running on your machine) to communicate directly with MS.

  • User profile image
    WayneB

    If every product I owned needed an automatic startup service to run, it would take forever to start my laptop up. Therefore, I like to keep auto-start services to a bare minimum.

    The Help and Support service is another example of this type of behavior. I had to disable it and remove permissions on HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\helpsvc to stop it from starting up if I accidentally hit the Help button on the start menu. Why do I need a freakin service to look at a Help file!?

    Now I can't use Help, but Google is better anyway.

  • User profile image
    WayneB

    I found a way to use the V4 update, you have to go to this URL:

    http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/catalog/en/

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Wayne, saving yourself power on your laptop is a pretty good reason to me, fair enough Smiley

    That said, I'm sure one of the guys who play around with development here could write you an app that would auto-start and auto-shutdown those services if need be.

    Your question of "why" still stands though, and given your circumstance it is a valid question.

  • User profile image
    WayneB

    I know they want the service to start automatically for normal consumers, in light of the past year(s) of security issues.

    However, as a power user I am feeling less and less control when I'm using Microsoft products. This is just one example of this "we know what's best for you" type of behavior. I hate it. Just give me a choice.

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    I can understand your sentiment, but realistically far too many people who FEEL they are power users and admins aren't. I'm not saying that about you, it's just the reality that if you give someone the choice between more security and more control they'll inevitably pick control, even when it's bad for them.

    So, MS seems to have found a "compromise": take control, but don't use the newest and greatest features.

    If people make enough noise, though, I'm sure we'll see a counterbalance eventually Smiley

  • User profile image
    Simo

    A few
    NET START
    NET STOP
    in a bat file should do it.

    Can't see anything wrong with the Event Log service myself. I run IIS, SQl Server, REporting Service and visual studio on my laptop, plus the apps I'm developing.

    There's always something useful in the event log when things have gone wrong. Usualy my own exception messages and a bunch of permission denieds from my SP2 vaio. Smiley

  • User profile image
    WayneB

    I would never disable the Event Log service.

    On a slightly off-topic note: Last week Microsoft issued a "cease and desist" to Torrent trackers that were providing XPSP2 downloads, and this week Microsoft is having trouble keeping up with the demand for XPSP2 downloads (per the update site).

    Oh the irony!

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