Coffeehouse Thread

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Microsoft Hyderabad Needs Only MCAs, BTechs, and BEs

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  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    The hiring strategy of Microsoft Hyderabad, in my opinion, does not co-incide with that of the Redmond office. In the last few months, I've got a several emails from consultants hired by Microsoft, but the email reads almost like the recent one I've got here:


    We are currently handling urgent requirements with Microsoft Corporation, Hyderabad.
    THE POSITIONS ARE BASED IN HYDERABAD

    They are looking for software professionals
    Education - BE/BTECH/ME/MTECH/MCA ONLY


    I do not have any of those degrees, like many other deserving software professionals. The culture at the Hyderabad office does not resemble the one at Redmond, but is more like any other Indian software company such as Infosys or Satyam.

    Thoughts?

  • User profile image
    Jax

    In what way do you think it does not coincide with the Redmond office?

    It sounds like you are getting mail from headhunters who are looking to fill slots at MS. As such, they are probably aiming to get the best possible candidates as they get paid per placement i.e. they are not being paid to interview huge batches of people but to send only the best in to get a job. As such they need a way to screen for the "best". If the job market in India is anything like it is in Redmond then they are getting upwards of 10,000 resumes a month. So they are going to have to be able to cut those 10,000 down to something managable, maybe 100 or so tops.

    I'm not sure why you think that the culture in Hyderabad is that different then the one in Redmond. Or even that Infosys is all that different.
    Jax

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    Please! Inviting people only with a silver badges, and not even considering the others is no criteria for filtering the crème de la crème of developers. Let me relate my own experience in the last so many years.

    I am a hard working guy and I never went to a CS college to get a formal training in CS. I spent 3 years doing a diploma in software engineering, which I paid for, while working along the side. I was always studious and hard-working. My parents couldn't afford me an education and so after my 12th standard I had to be the sole bread-winner of my family. That along with the fact that no one guided me to take a degree in CS was the fact that I didn't do it.

    Does that mean I am not amoung the top few ones? At Redmond (and we're saying this on Holy Channel 9, so everyone better know I am swearing by the text) there's no such thing. They only want to see how you can help the company if you are talented. Tell me I am not wrong, or anull my faith. They're looking for real-life hero's who're smart, intelligent, talented and Get Things Done (tm) and not just for CS graduates. If I am wrong, please read How Would You Move Mount Fuji. Bill Gates believes he could teach an intelligent person to do anything for him. Kindly read about Lewis Terman's Stanford-Binet IQ tests that are the norm of the famously difficult Redmond interviews.

    I have seen a lot of educated devs who have degrees, and have been working at nice, large companies for years. And they don't know how to save a recordset into a CSV file. I am talking about developers, let me clarify that. Some of them have gone away with making trainees work. Most of them have been paid to do a job they have no clue of, and they learn the basics on the job at the expense of the project and the company. I've seen two companies shut down shop. They had hired all BEs, BTechs etc. mostly. Some of them do not know anything. Some of them do not even know that they do not know anything. And yet, all of them have fantastic degrees.

    I have seen a lot of my peers who have completed BE from colleges accross the country - Bangalore, Hyderabad etc. All they did during their study was bird-watching, bunking classes, smoking and partying. I also have two or three friends like me, who toiled in the cruel world when we were only kids out of school to earn our families a decent livelihood. One of them could not even continue studying after 12th standard. Today, he's a developer in Singapore. And he's much more well-informed and eloquent when it comes to talking someone's pants off. Two years back, because of this ameobic disease that has infested the software development industry, he thought he'd enroll with the Punjab University for a degree (MCA). They gave him 35 out of 100 in C. For all I know, he could eat the examiners a** in C. He's known C for a very, very long time and he'd been practicing for more than an year. The examiners get paid per paper they check. They get Rs.7 for every paper. One sikh friend I know, who didn't study at all, and only did last minute studies passed the Punjab University Exams for MCA. So, he's been lucky. He walked out with a silver badge. He probably walked into a company that was asking for precisely just that - an MCA.

    I am not saying all of them do that. All I am saying is that there are real deserving people who some how did not get a degree, and they would feel honoured and valued for their contribution if they were considered. At least, Microsoft, one of the only companies, the company that I proudly boast about to my colleagues, does not have this sectarianism.

    In India, so many big companies have the regular Joe programmers I described above, who have degree certificates but less real worth. And they get jobs easily in Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), Infosys and the like. On what is so usual about Infosys, ask me. Infosys may have bagged a V-Dash contract with Microsoft, but under the hood, it is just another one of those companies. I have a friend there. And a report in the Business World confirmed that last year. That is my experience.

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    And the same hiring agency that sent me the Microsoft advert also sent me this:

    We are currently handling requirements with BEA SYSTEMS - Bangalore.

    BEA Systems, Inc. is the world's leading application infrastructure
    software company. BEA provides the enterprise software foundation for more
    than 15,000 customers around the world, including.....

    ...blah..blah..blah...lorem ipsum from some brouchure I am sure.


    Requirement Details:

    Position - Infrastructure Engineer / Configuration Manager / Build
    Release Manager


    Functional success factors: Knowledge in source code management
    systems, Perforce a plus. Background in UNIX, NT/WIN2K, Makefiles, ANT,
    InstallAnywhere, HTTP, PERL and scripting language, and familiarity with Java
    a plus.


    And the mails are all unformatted. There's a pattern to all of them that you can tell without reading what the contents will be.

    "Wanted MCA, BTech, blah...blah...blah...3.2544546 years experience, not more not less, because I am such a parrot."

    Point: They are surely not paid to interview many people, but that is what they must be doing if their client is really serious about hiring talent. These people are only desperate spammers who just push the send button everytime they get a job requirement, and they send it to all the people they know. The requirements in the mail have nothing to do with my skill set. Abso-flipping-lutely Nothing (tm)!

    Yet, I get a load of these everyday. And that is very sad. Because I personally love Microsoft very much, but when I tell my peers about the glory of the company, it doesn't seem all that true because of the experience we have. The Microsoft mentality doesn't percolate through the agencies and drill down to the level where we are.

    One of the recruiters even asks, with each and every single mail he sends, a long, laundry list of questions including your salary, your expected salary, and the salaries, addresses and telephone numbers of at least two references (so he can spam the new catch too).

    Here's what he asks always:

    *  Are U open for Wipro - Hyderabad (Y/N) :
    *  Relocation preferences: if any :
    * Your Full Name ( First : Middle : Last )(All Expanded )(As per Passport) :
    *  Present Company :
    *  Present Salary :
    *  Expected Salary :
    *  Present Designation :
    *  Total number of .NET Professionals in your company :
    *  Your Present Organization Designation Hierarchy  vis a vis your designation :
    *  Experience in SQL SERVER 2000 in months & year(s):
    *  Experience in .NET FRAMEWORK in months & year(s):
    *  Experience in ASP.NET in months & year(s):
    *  Experience in VB.NET in months & year(s):
    *  Experience in C# in months & year(s):
    *  Experience in Microsoft Technologies in months & year(s):
    *  Experience in any other Technologies in months & year(s):
    *  Total IT experience in months & year(s):
    *  Total Non-IT experience in months & year(s):
    * Your educational background with % of marks & year of passing from Xth onwards ( Mandatory ) :
    *  Your Date of Birth ( DD / MM / YY ) :
    *  Passport Availability / Status:
    *  Contact Details (Res./Off/Mobile):
    *  Your Two e-mail id's :
    *  Time required to join if selected:
    *  Overseas Experience if any :
    *  Two professional references (who are in Testing itself) with their e-mail id's , phone ( R & off ) & their present employers name & contact address :
    So, please do forward your CV immediately with the complete details.

    No one has the time to fill in these. If this is what companies trust their recruiting to, I can assure you they are not on the right path.

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    I have to take back my words. From some time in the recent past, after I made this post, I've recieved a two emails from two consultants saying something like:

    Dear Sathyaish,

    We would like to know if you are contemplating a change at this point
    in your career. If yes, I would appreciate if you could send me your
    updated profile (with all contact details) as we have an immediate opening
    with one of our prestigious client.

    About Client:- (Listed-NYSE)   team of 140,000 employees  with presence 
    in 178 countries . Revenues  $72 billion, fortune 50 Client. Position
    is based at Hyderabad which is one of the state of art  final product
    shipment center.
    We are looking for somebody with experience on hard-core Product
    development or R & D. We are open to all domains. The only thing that we are
    looking for is “Potential”.
     
    Dev Competencies
    Key Competencies for all
    ·        Coding
    ·        Debugging
    ·        Knowledge of CS Concepts/Design

    Dev Lead/Tech Lead/Senior IC

    ·        MS Quality Design & coding
    ·        Product Cycle experience
    ·        Technical breadth & big picture

    Dev Manager/Architect

    Knowledge of Clients & competition
    Can define product architecture
    Core Competencies
    Competencies for all
    Intellectual horsepower
    Problem solving
    Drive for results
    Passion
    Competencies for Leads & Managers
    Self Confidence
    Planning, Organizing & coordinating People
    Developing People

    Microsoft has planned their visit in Bangalore on 26th of October
    Pls send me a copy of your updated Profile ASAP.
    Rgds
    Bhavna Tuteja
    Executive-Talent Search
    New Era India


    Another email, but this a not-so-smart reading, goes like this:

    Dear Mr Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    Hi!  We have mapped your profile with an excellent onsite  opportunity
    from
    Microsoft-India for Development Lead.  Please read on for further
    details.

    Microsoft is  a well known company and a preferred company by IT
    professionals


    5-10 years (12+ months lead experience, 18+ month's .net experience is mandatory The primary role of this person will be to…Do you eat and breathe Code?

    ...same stuff what Microsoft would have given them.


    Most of the Microsoft, Hyderabad job postings on Monster India now have changed and they read...


    Oct 12   Program Manager
    Program Manager Job Requirements Experience : 8 - 12 Yrs Education : B.E/B.Tech, MCA/PGDCA Any, Computers, Computers Job Description Key Skills : Program Manager, Project Manager Description : The pri ...[more]


    Oct 4  

    Development Lead
    <b.Role of the Group: List the technical, managerial and behavioral skills required for this position: Must have · Minimum 4 yrs applications development experience. · Minimum 1 yrs dev lead experienc ...[more]

    The Development Lead position does not mandate any degree requirement.



    Thank you, Hyderabad, for the responsiveness.
  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Is it Microsoft policy to rely on agencies or are these agencies trying it on?

    Have you checked out Microsoft Asia Career Search ?

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    Sounds like spam to me. But how could it be? It's from MS. Hmmmm, makes you think...

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    Whenever I get an email from a consultant about openings in Microsoft, I send them my resume. In the last one month, I received four such emails and sent them my resume. The writing on the wall was, “Microsoft isn’t looking for a degree, just for talent. If you’re someone who loves to code, if you’re a some that breathes and chews on code, you’re our prospect.”

    Now that a delegation from Microsoft, Redmond is visiting Delhi after a long time this weekend on the 21st and 22nd November, I got emails from consultants again. I sent them my resume again. I don’t want to miss this opportunity. The newspapers all have it – Steve Ballmer to meet the Prime Minister Mr. Manmohan Singh on his 3-day visit to India. I am so excited about the interviews.

    The visit was previously scheduled for the 6th of November, but was postponed because of the Diwali festival. One of the consultants told me that they send their resumes to Microsoft and the Microsoft people shortlist the resumes they like and directly call the candidates for the interview. These are not walk-in interviews. So, if you’re shortlisted, you are called 2-3 days before the interview.

    Since the interviews are on this weekend, I must receive a call by Thursday. I haven’t received a call yet. So this evening, I got anxious and called one of the consultants. This was the email I’d received from them.









    Hi,

    We are currently handling urgent requirements with
    Microsoft Corporation, Hyderabad.



    THE POSITIONS ARE BASED IN HYDERABAD


    They are looking for software professionals # Software Professionals
    with development experience in .NET/C# and SQL (minimum of 1
    yr exp in .net) with 5 - 8 years of experience.

    #Testing Professionals - worked on Automated Testing (winrunner/
    loadrunner/silk test/mercury) or Manual Testing

    Domain :- Microsoft technologies (C#,.net,vb...etc) 5- 8 years of experience

    If you are interested in this opening,kindly send your updated profile
    in a word document format ASAP to arjumand@tvainfotech.com. They
    are conducting interviews in """DELHI on 6th / 7th November 2004"""
    Kindly confirm your availability for the same. They have 50 positions
    open across level.I would appreciate it if you could refer your friends/
    colleagues who would be interested in exploring this opportunity.

    KINDLY DO NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE.

    Thanks & Regards,
    Arjumand.

    Recruitment Specialist
    TVA Infotech Pvt Ltd.
    Bangalore.
    URL:www.tvainfotech.com

    Ph# 080-25595959 ext 50

    "TVA Infotech" - India's fastest IT recruitment company












    I called Arjumand on her cell phone this evening because
    I was anxious about receiving a call. I’d sent her my resume
    four times already, in reply to her four emails. I’d also informed
    her about my interest in Microsoft, Microsoft’s hiring philosophy
    and about v-dash employment.
    The call went like,
    Me: Hello! Arjumand, this is Sathyaish from Delhi.

    Her: Yeah?



    (She doesn’t remember, that’s ok. Consultants don’t remember
    every candidate. Even if the candidate has sent them a resume
    four times and a unique cover letter every time. )
    Me: I’d sent you my resume with regard to the recruitment 
    process for Microsoft. I was anxious to know when short-listed
    candidates receive their calls by.
    Her: What’s your name, again?

    Me: Sathyaish. Sathyaish Chakravarthy. I’d sent it to you
    four times. When…
    Her: Who did you send it to? Me?

    Me: Yeah!

    Her: You see, we have a process of short-listing the candidates
     and…
    Me: Do you short-list the candidates or do you send all the 
    resumes to Microsoft?

    Her: No, there’s a direct link. It’s very easy that way.

    Me: I didn’t get it. Do you send all the resumes you get and
    the Microsoft folks short-list them or?

    Her: No. They don’t short-list them. We short-list them. And
    we’re the only hiring agency that is serving this client, Microsoft.
    At this point, I am amazed. First off all, they’re not the only 
    agency into this process I know. But that’s not important.
    The reason I was shocked was that I had read on Zoe and
    Gretchen’s blog that the intermediaries do not play a role
    in short-listing candidates. Read the comments I made here
    in this post.
    http://blogs.msdn.com/jobsblog/archive/2004/10/06/238978.aspx#FeedBack

    Her: Ok! What’s your profile? What are you into? Testing? .NET?

    Me: I work as a Senior Project Lead, in a software development.
    My skill set is Visual Basic, VB.NET, Win32…
    Her: Ok! Do one thing. Can you send it again? Please send 
    it to me again. What’s your email ID?

    Me: My email ID is SathyaishC@yahoo.co.uk. I have sent it to
    you four times. I am the guy who wrote to you about the v-dash
    employment and that Microsoft people are not so keen on
    candidates having a degree in Computer Science.
    Her: Ah! Oh! Ok! I remember. Oh, Sathyaish! Yes. I think. 
    Wait! Let me just check.
    Me: What criteria do you shortlist candidates on?

    Her: We have some requirements and we…

    Me: I’d like to know, please.

    Her: What skill set they ask for.

    Me: What else, besides the skill set.

    Her: (She’s spotted my email to her) Ah! I found your email.
    Ok! We didn’t send your resume to Microsoft.

    Me: WHY????????????

    Her: A-a—a-a! Because of the education, Sathyaish.

    Me: But…
    <>I just wanted to let Microsoft know, that it is still very hard for people without a degree because of the intermediaries. The emails were clear they were not looking for the usual MCA/BCA/B.Tech BS, yet this is what happened to my resume. I demanded an explanation from the consultant, and she was speechless. After a brief pause, she covered up and said she’d reconsider and get back to me and tell me by tomorrow. Are these consultants qualified in the first place? Is it right to discard resumes that do not have a degree written on them? All this has made me very sad. Sorry for venting it out, but I have no friends to share this with, and so I post on forums when I am sad. Microsoft, will I be considered? Do I not deserve? Will I be able to avail this golden chance and be called for an interview?
  • User profile image
    thechris

    employers want some proof that you can do anything useful.  with the industry as it is, you can string together a long list of buzz words to get an interview.

    like on my resume I list that i have worked with:
    C, C++, visual basic, python

    i've written 2 python programs, and the last C program i wrote was 2 years ago.

    however if i change this to languages that i know, suddenly it is a stronger statment.  possibly implying that i went for a CS degree instead of EE. 

    so you look for certain things that are basically proof of competence:  former employment, certifications, degrees.

  • User profile image
    Gretchen

    Sathyaish - Sorry to hear about your experience.  Microsoft has a very large recruiting organization, and often our subs do business differently than we do at corporate so I can't commit on the reasons behind your experience.

    Since you mentioned our blog post on using third-party recruitment firms, I wanted to clarify that Zoe and I said that our specific team doesn't use third-party firms to short-list candidates.  I am not familiar with how other teams operate.

  • User profile image
    Sathyaish Chakravarthy

    Gretchen,

    I want to thank you and Zoe ever so much for passing on the word to the India recruiting team. If they're any good, I am sure they will give me an opportunity to interview.

    However, I have reason to think otherwise.

    Last evening, I got a telephone call from one of the consultants called Sampoorna. This was a different consultant from the one I talked about. He made me fill up a form that Microsoft Hyderabad had asked candidates to fill up, and he sent my papers to the Microsoft folks at Hyderabad. On inquiring further from him, he divulged to me that this bias emanated directly from Microsoft Hyderabad as they had a requirements form sent to each consultant and that form, in no unclear terms, stated that it was mandatory that candidates have either an MCA or B.Tech or B.E for all positions. Even M.Sc (Computer Sciences) (Master of Science) was not to be considered. Like I said in the start of this thread, Microsoft Hyderabad is just like any other Indian company. They are not like the "Microsoft" that I love; the Microsoft that is Microsoft, the Microsoft that is at Redmond; the true Microsoft.

    So, we're back to where I started. And I'll know with first-hand experience now, if that statement I made is true.

    And I won't be wrong, because I am not alone in believing that.

    http://channel9.msdn.com/India/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=15893


    My heart is at One Microsoft Way.

  • User profile image
    yashks

    Sathyaish Chakravarthy,

    After reading your posting I got following thoughts:

    1. Once you know that you are perfect candidate for some company, then you should try different ways by planning properly to get into that company. For ex: After developing a nice product, you need to have proper plans to sell that software in Market. Just having nice product is useless. Here, you are like one Product.
    2. If you don't have Degree or Master degree or what ever expected qualifications, then you need to plan how to beat other candidates in skill sets. Instead if you just believe consultants and there requirements it is not correct. They are doing business based on there knowledge and more over consultants are not technically capable to understand your interests. They just scan the resumes based on some criteria which is given by company and they will screen the candidates. Once you know that your resume will be screened through consultants or HR people in a company and not selected, you have only 1 way that is reference of some technical people in that company.

      Even if you don't know, you can always spend some months to search thru friends and all, meanwhile you get time to learn something more. You need to understand the fact that, there are very few people who are skilled in non-degree list. Due to this reasons, company cannot just ask for non-degree students in Advertising, since they get more unwanted resumes, which will waste there time during screening. So, best option is you search some way to get interview thru reference. I am pretty sure, it is possible always to search reference in a company, although it takes time. But, gives better result.
    3. 'Mandatory' is not completely perfect word in AD's. If you have skills where you can beat Degree/Masters. Who is not going to give you job in this World? every company wants smart candidates who are capable to deliver expected output, thats how they can progress in there business. If you are the one, you figure the way to approach the company and ignore that 'Mandatory' word. I am pretty sure there are more then one way always. After you join company degree or what ever so called certificates will not write code in computer, you have to write yourself to get expected output.
    4. If you 'love' some company, you should try various methods to get into it. Just loving company and if you are not getting into it still, it alarms that you need to improve something more.
    5. If you are speaking to consultants where they don't understand your interests and if you decide that target company is good or bad, then it is not good option. Since, you are speaking to some consultants not a technical guy from other company directly.
    6. Microsoft is landed in India to do business like they are doing in Redmond. If you say MS-India is just another Indian company, it is very bad. Since, there are many things which you need to understand about Indian companies in India itself. If you do more study in these areas you will understand many thing though.
    7. Microsoft is large company, even if one team rejects you later another team might hire you coz they had different requirements and you had the same.
    8. If you sit in hiring job, you dont have idea how to identify talent in millions resumes which you get. This is always a challenging job which every company is facing today. So, best option is candidate himself need to approach the company thru proper channel and different methods. You are raising your opinions that they are not hiring proper talent, but keeping yourself in hiring position suggest a plan for them how to identify best candidates by spending less time, then you will understand there problems.
    9. Also your explaination about Degree/MCA is few examples, again we cannot say all of them are bad. There are dumb people in every kind of group. You take a degree, there are dumb peoples, you take a non-degree, there are dumb peoples, like this you can take any kind of group, you will find dumb peoples.
    10. Blaming companies in public forum by NAMING it explicitly is very bad. Obviously many will have differance of opnions about each companies and having different opinion is not bad, but in public forum you need to avoid naming it.
    11. Often, we as a human beings, we do over estimation ourself. So, to avoid this, after we talk or after we do some task, we should try to evaluate ourself that we have done some task properly or not. We have to ask ourself many questions like, Am i so intelligent? How much i am intelligent? How did i come to know that i am intelligent? Whom did i compare myself to call myself as intelligent? etc... asking questions self matters most to estimate ourself.
    12. Getting into some company doesnt matter most, what matters is how many years you can survive in that company? did you involve in developing nice products? etc... Remeber, there are many people who gets fired from company for not being capable to do things. If you meet some person today, he might be dumb after some years if you meet, he might become smart enough to do things, you can find this kind of peoples though.

    Regards,
    Yash K.S

  • User profile image
    PATTAN

    Thank you very much Yash K.S, for a detailed analasys, explanation and they are 100% valid points.

     

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