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IE9

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  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Any word from it? I think at this point, IE is weakest? Weak tab switching. Slower Flash (FarmVille is certainly faster on FF, not sure about Chorme). No greasemonkey, harder to customize? And mostly, can we have multiple IE installed? I know that doesn't sound right, but, if those government want to keep IE6 is fine, but, it least let them run newer IE side-by-side.

     

    I don't even know why I am using IE anymore. It is stupid of me still using IE or still having hope on IE, IMO. Maybe I should switch already since the epic fail of IE9 would probably too devistating for me. I would rather lower expectation to get hurt less.

     

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    figuerres

    the IE side by side thing is a PIA.

    I have asked for that several times but i do not think we will ever see it.

    why: the IE "parts" are used by many other programs in the system.  they would i think have to install 2 versions of ie and make one of them register with COM the "old way" and the other would have to register differently and then you would have apps that would show html the IE6 way and others the IE-9 way .....  IE and the dlls for it are hooked into a bunch of things .... messy and bad but it's been that way for aonmg time and would be huge work to fix. many apps would break if not patched / updated and many of them are not MS apps.

  • User profile image
    RLO

    I myself would like to see an "IE Express".  A simple, fast, and completely slimmed down version of IE.   No toolbars or accelerators.   With a central control panel applet to manage plug-ins like Flash, Java, and Silverlight.

     

    Just a browser.  If I want more than that, give me an advanced version to download seperately.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Having read this, I agree and as a consequence I've just installed FireFox as my default browser over IE8; I'll keep it on for at least 1 week and then decide whether to stay with FF.

     

    Herbie

     

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    figuerres said:

    the IE side by side thing is a PIA.

    I have asked for that several times but i do not think we will ever see it.

    why: the IE "parts" are used by many other programs in the system.  they would i think have to install 2 versions of ie and make one of them register with COM the "old way" and the other would have to register differently and then you would have apps that would show html the IE6 way and others the IE-9 way .....  IE and the dlls for it are hooked into a bunch of things .... messy and bad but it's been that way for aonmg time and would be huge work to fix. many apps would break if not patched / updated and many of them are not MS apps.

    Didn't they solved this in .Net? They said you can have multiple version of DLL? I am not trying to break other apps because we did keep the old IE for them. The thought of old IE will always hinder the next version? That's just scary and uninspiring. If MS IE only cares about business, then, as a home user, there is no point to stick with MS IE.

     

    I am sure at one point, people like to compare and whine. And obviously those people are already switched. And here I am trying to use IE and over time, the jusitification decreases over time. If you ask me honestly? FF already took over the home user ground and most of sites are more FF centric then IE now. I am not really sure how MS look at this, but, yeah, I am using FF and IE side by side now. Eventually I will give up IE before IE9 comes out. I mean even if IE9 comes out, the experience is still crappy anyway. I have yet to see any commitment from MS besides the pointless "performance" improvement that is apparently useless in real world practice.

     

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    exoteric

    Why the sad face? Use the best there is and change as the market changes. They're all free and they're all getting better.

  • User profile image
    elmer

    magicalclick said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    Didn't they solved this in .Net? They said you can have multiple version of DLL? I am not trying to break other apps because we did keep the old IE for them. The thought of old IE will always hinder the next version? That's just scary and uninspiring. If MS IE only cares about business, then, as a home user, there is no point to stick with MS IE.

     

    I am sure at one point, people like to compare and whine. And obviously those people are already switched. And here I am trying to use IE and over time, the jusitification decreases over time. If you ask me honestly? FF already took over the home user ground and most of sites are more FF centric then IE now. I am not really sure how MS look at this, but, yeah, I am using FF and IE side by side now. Eventually I will give up IE before IE9 comes out. I mean even if IE9 comes out, the experience is still crappy anyway. I have yet to see any commitment from MS besides the pointless "performance" improvement that is apparently useless in real world practice.

     

     

    I don't believe the trend is toward being more "FF centric" per-se, but certainly towards being less "IE centric".

     

    Unlike their competitors, MS appear to be extremely reluctant to implement support for "pre-standards" (such as the various -moz- CSS3 vendor extensions) but there is the perception among web-devs that CSS3 and HTML5 are already defacto standards.

     

    As web-devs use the various pre-standard extensions available, and at the same time stop using IE quirks, proprietary features, and alternate hacks, the tendency is for IE to render sites in "plain jane" mode.

     

    Certainly, although I fully appreciate that it's not a W3C standard, it nevertheless annoys the * out of me that I still can't use a border-radius with IE... and I just leave IE to render square-cornered boxes these days, when all other browsers are rendering the intended rounded corners.

     

    MS appear to have no process for update other than major versions, which means they can't add new features/functions except for those infrequent updates, and so are always going to be "old tech" compared to the competition.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    What does any of this ranting have to do with IE9, specifically? You should consider using more useful titles for your threads.

    C

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    magicalclick said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    Didn't they solved this in .Net? They said you can have multiple version of DLL? I am not trying to break other apps because we did keep the old IE for them. The thought of old IE will always hinder the next version? That's just scary and uninspiring. If MS IE only cares about business, then, as a home user, there is no point to stick with MS IE.

     

    I am sure at one point, people like to compare and whine. And obviously those people are already switched. And here I am trying to use IE and over time, the jusitification decreases over time. If you ask me honestly? FF already took over the home user ground and most of sites are more FF centric then IE now. I am not really sure how MS look at this, but, yeah, I am using FF and IE side by side now. Eventually I will give up IE before IE9 comes out. I mean even if IE9 comes out, the experience is still crappy anyway. I have yet to see any commitment from MS besides the pointless "performance" improvement that is apparently useless in real world practice.

     

     

    @magicalclick:

     

    .Net solved a certain set of problems with com but did not "Fix" Com.

    also even with .Net a developer can create some of the classic com/dll problems if they do not follow the .net rules.

     

    and lastly the problem when we are talking about how IE is built and installed is that it does not do what .net did and many 3rd party applications have dependancy issues that if a new IE was built that did not work the way the apps expect it to work then they would break and MS would get the blame.

     

    is that blame fair or not? that's a long and invloved topic that goes to many places ... like the windows 95 days when IE V1 was born.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    figuerres said:
    magicalclick said:
    *snip*

    @magicalclick:

     

    .Net solved a certain set of problems with com but did not "Fix" Com.

    also even with .Net a developer can create some of the classic com/dll problems if they do not follow the .net rules.

     

    and lastly the problem when we are talking about how IE is built and installed is that it does not do what .net did and many 3rd party applications have dependancy issues that if a new IE was built that did not work the way the apps expect it to work then they would break and MS would get the blame.

     

    is that blame fair or not? that's a long and invloved topic that goes to many places ... like the windows 95 days when IE V1 was born.

    Why would app break when I didn't replace IE6? I am only installing a separate version, which didn't affect anything that's is already there. At least give me the option to replace IE6 or not. If I choose no, then, all those app will remain IE6 and I can still use newer IE in addition to that. Basically don't replace IE6 and don't change registry, simple as that.

     

    @elmer I don't really care about CSS3 or HTML5. I care about the dreaded tab switching. The closed tab didn't release RAM. Lack of openness/customization such as  FF greasmonkey. And hack, the stupid download window still going to "weird default directory". When I mean "weird", I mean, no one remembers where they change the dir to. And yes, mine is always desktop, but, there are stupid times when it doesn't, and I would have to be like, here did I download it? I mean, there is so many things that should be solved before going talking about CSS3 and HTML5.

     

    @Charles I suppose I should reply to that 2002 IE Feedback thread, but then, people would start thinking I am spaming. But, mostly, I want to know if there is any news about IE9 as my first line suggested.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    Charles

    magicalclick said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    Why would app break when I didn't replace IE6? I am only installing a separate version, which didn't affect anything that's is already there. At least give me the option to replace IE6 or not. If I choose no, then, all those app will remain IE6 and I can still use newer IE in addition to that. Basically don't replace IE6 and don't change registry, simple as that.

     

    @elmer I don't really care about CSS3 or HTML5. I care about the dreaded tab switching. The closed tab didn't release RAM. Lack of openness/customization such as  FF greasmonkey. And hack, the stupid download window still going to "weird default directory". When I mean "weird", I mean, no one remembers where they change the dir to. And yes, mine is always desktop, but, there are stupid times when it doesn't, and I would have to be like, here did I download it? I mean, there is so many things that should be solved before going talking about CSS3 and HTML5.

     

    @Charles I suppose I should reply to that 2002 IE Feedback thread, but then, people would start thinking I am spaming. But, mostly, I want to know if there is any news about IE9 as my first line suggested.

     

    No news yet. You'll have to wait... Smiley
    C

  • User profile image
    kettch

    Charles said:
    magicalclick said:
    *snip*

    No news yet. You'll have to wait... Smiley
    C

    I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess...MIX?

     

    I don't want you to get into trouble, so if I'm right scratch your left ear.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    magicalclick said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    Why would app break when I didn't replace IE6? I am only installing a separate version, which didn't affect anything that's is already there. At least give me the option to replace IE6 or not. If I choose no, then, all those app will remain IE6 and I can still use newer IE in addition to that. Basically don't replace IE6 and don't change registry, simple as that.

     

    @elmer I don't really care about CSS3 or HTML5. I care about the dreaded tab switching. The closed tab didn't release RAM. Lack of openness/customization such as  FF greasmonkey. And hack, the stupid download window still going to "weird default directory". When I mean "weird", I mean, no one remembers where they change the dir to. And yes, mine is always desktop, but, there are stupid times when it doesn't, and I would have to be like, here did I download it? I mean, there is so many things that should be solved before going talking about CSS3 and HTML5.

     

    @Charles I suppose I should reply to that 2002 IE Feedback thread, but then, people would start thinking I am spaming. But, mostly, I want to know if there is any news about IE9 as my first line suggested.

     

    "Why would app break when I didn't replace IE6? I am only installing a separate version, which didn't affect anything that's is already there. At least give me the option to replace IE6 or not. If I choose no, then, all those app will remain IE6 and I can still use newer IE in addition to that. Basically don't replace IE6 and don't change registry, simple as that."

     

    But consider applications like Maxathon, which use the IE rendering engine and want to get the latest version when an update is applied. Others will want to get the version they were designed against. Yet others still don't mind and might benefit from getting the updated rendering engine or might break and the developers can't really know beforehand. When you start wanting to keep both versions of a component around the rules start to become complicated, because you have to try and figure a way to let some apps update and others not.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    AndyC said:
    magicalclick said:
    *snip*

    "Why would app break when I didn't replace IE6? I am only installing a separate version, which didn't affect anything that's is already there. At least give me the option to replace IE6 or not. If I choose no, then, all those app will remain IE6 and I can still use newer IE in addition to that. Basically don't replace IE6 and don't change registry, simple as that."

     

    But consider applications like Maxathon, which use the IE rendering engine and want to get the latest version when an update is applied. Others will want to get the version they were designed against. Yet others still don't mind and might benefit from getting the updated rendering engine or might break and the developers can't really know beforehand. When you start wanting to keep both versions of a component around the rules start to become complicated, because you have to try and figure a way to let some apps update and others not.

    In that case, Maxathon can simply push a patch to grab the new IE instead? I mean, MS can simply provide a flag value.

    Application.IE.Verion = Static.IE6;    // lock in IE6

    Or

    Application.IE.Version = Dynamic.IE6;    // IE6 and up.

    I wouldn't raise this issue if it weren't a major problem. Apps running IE is good, because I want to do that as dev. But, in the same time, I can't let this reason to hinder IE development. And it is already a big problem as tons of croporate unable to upgrade IE6 and start to use 3rd party browser for regular basis. And the fact that new IE has to cover the impossible bc is just way too much overhead in development. And what about new apps that runs on IE8, but not IE6? And IE6 cannot be upgraded? All those new apps are screwed? Meaning, should I actually code my new apps using IE6 in mind because most of corporation is unwilling to upgrade IE6?

     

    So if I am a dev that requires functions from IE and yet I know half of my customers are IE6 only. Then, in order to make sure my app can evolve regardless how my customers are never upgrade IE6, I have to switch to something that can either

    1) uses a library with multi-versioning.

    2) complettly embeded the entire rendering engine in my app.

    Whether I have another half of customers are using newer version of IE,  it has the potential to become legacy and my app would be screwed again. And obviously I already can't cover all different version of IE that my cutomers are locked in. So, it is not just future, but, I can't even satisfy my customers with current state of IE.

     

    I don't care the solution. What I care is, there is a problem and we need to do something about it. But nah, let's just pretend there is nothing wrong. It is better for MS to leave browser market, so no more law suits anyway. Want to get the browser experience in your app? Well, we still have IE6 or we can use 3rd party library. No biggy.

     

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    ScottWelker

    Dr Herbie said:

    Having read this, I agree and as a consequence I've just installed FireFox as my default browser over IE8; I'll keep it on for at least 1 week and then decide whether to stay with FF.

     

    Herbie

     

    Hope you're not using SharePoint Wiki :-/

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    ScottWelker said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    Hope you're not using SharePoint Wiki :-/

    No I'm not at the moment, just general web browsing.  So far it's ok -- not startlingly better than IE8, no big feature to keep me using FF over IE8.

     

    Tabs open quicker, but the app takes longer to start up (I tend to close apps that I'm not using to keep the taskbar uncluttered so I open and close the browser more than most).

     

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    Dr Herbie said:
    ScottWelker said:
    *snip*

    No I'm not at the moment, just general web browsing.  So far it's ok -- not startlingly better than IE8, no big feature to keep me using FF over IE8.

     

    Tabs open quicker, but the app takes longer to start up (I tend to close apps that I'm not using to keep the taskbar uncluttered so I open and close the browser more than most).

     

    Herbie

    If you want very fast start up, you should try Google Chrome.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    TommyCarlier said:
    Dr Herbie said:
    *snip*

    If you want very fast start up, you should try Google Chrome.

    I guess I'll take a tour of them all, one week each -- Chrome and Opera next, then possibly Maxathon if I'm not bored of the whole process by then.

     

    Herbie

     

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