Vittorio Bertocci and Caleb Baker: Understanding CardSpace and the Complexities of Identity

cool too bad gilad has to be so gosh darned arrogant..
everything he didnt make seems to suck/be evil/sick and every one who doesnt agree with him he seems to think is an idiot:P he has alot of valid points but i just dont think the world is that black
and white..
but hey.. thats just my impression awsome interview
aL_ wrote:cool
too bad gilad has to be so gosh darned arrogant..
everything he didnt make seems to suck/be evil/sick and every one who doesnt agree with him he seems to think is an idiot
he has alot of valid points but i just dont think the world is that black and white..
but hey.. thats just my impression
awsome interview
Charles wrote:
Gilad has a complex sense of humor.
I have to agree... I found this talk interesting but Gilad comes across as very arrogant. He seems to think that most developers don't want to learn anything. If that were the case no one would be watching this video.
I think perhaps working in an academic scenario for a long time causes people to lose appreciation for people working against commercial pressures. Most developers I have worked with are very keen to learn new languages/technologies but in reality they have deadlines to meet. In addition it takes time for these things to gain acceptance at the corporate level.
His comments about older people's inability to learn are also out of line.
It's a shame really; I feel these comments tarnished an otherwise very interesting discussion.
Charles wrote:I have more from Lang.NET in the pipeline. Stay tuned.
C
Great...Charles..
I will enjoy all the stuff from Lang.NET 2008
Also, Gilad had his viewpoints and is nothing wrong or arrogant..
Awesome video..
Just great video,
So much thanks go to all of you out there at Channel 9 for getting so much great material on my screen’s pixel.
I just love your coverage about functional programming and the talks you can have with all those gurus.
Thanks again for giving us the chance to feel ourselves on the campus or on the conferences with you.
You fell less alone isolated in your “little geekless towns”.
Keep up the great work ! I know I will be watching
PatB wrote:Just great video,
So much thanks go to all of you out there at Channel 9 for getting so much great material on my screen’s pixel.
I just love your coverage about functional programming and the talks you can have with all those gurus.
Thanks again for giving us the chance to feel ourselves on the campus or on the conferences with you. You fell less alone isolated in your “little geekless towns”.
Keep up the great work ! I know I will be watching
Chadk wrote:
Charles wrote:
I have more from Lang.NET in the pipeline. Stay tuned.
C
Is there gonna be more with Mads? He seems extremely cool, but he didnt get to say all that much compared to Erik and Gilad in this interview, which is a shame.
Hey Gilad,
Did you choose Newspeak as the name of your new language based on Orwell's 1984 (a language with an ever decreasing vocabulary... )?
C
Dark_Halmut wrote:alot of stuff.
gaurav.net wrote:
Also, Gilad had his viewpoints and is nothing wrong or arrogant..
aL_ wrote:
gaurav.net wrote:
Also, Gilad had his viewpoints and is nothing wrong or arrogant..
well ofcourse he is entitled to his own oppinion![]()
but i think he is definitly wrong about people not wanting to learn.. its very hard not to learn as a programmer.. its a creative process. i think that if you dont like learning you will fail as a programmer and end up doing other work. also, as previously stated, real world programmers does have a job to do. they dont always have the time to stroke their beards and bury themselvs in theory, but that doesnt mean they dont want to, i whould certinaly like to have time to do that (as long as its useful atleast).
what i find arrogant is his blatant disses of far more successful technoligis like c#, java, the clr and c++ as crap (compared to newspeak and smalltalk), and that he attribute their success to programmer ignorance rather than quality of the respective systems..
its like its never the fault of smalltalk or erlang or haskell or whatever that they are not widly accepted, because they have no flaws (according to their inventors/proponents). its just that everone else is to stupid to understand their greatness. i know im exaggerating but you get my point
to me, thats the same kind of rethoric that mac and linux fanbois (that do not make up the entirety of those communities) use against windows. "its crap and people only use it because they're stupid, if they where smart (like me) the whould use the system im using"
i know he doesnt say that but to me, he(and many others) comes across like meaning that.. it doesnt really sound like hes making a joke, but charles tells me his sense of humor is complex.. i think "jokes" like are very ofputting to the programmer comunities he whould want to use stuff like newspeak. if youre reading this gilad, please consider this constructive feedback.
a great example of someone who does not come across as arrogant and make "his" technique sound very appealing and approachable is erik meijer. he does a great job explaining the concepts of fp without make it uncessecary complicated. so major bigup on erik. i think Gilad whould have a far easier time getting smalltalk and newspeak widely accepted if he took a page from erik
and another thing, saying that you can make dynamic systems fast and efficient is not good enough. you have to actually do it. like what microsoft has done with the dlr.. twice as fast as cpython last year, and its built on the clr with its static type system![]()
but again, a very interesting video, just because i disagree with some stuff doesnt make it bad
esoteric wrote:I think Gilad was *absolutely spot on* about moving the industry forward and somebody is bound to feel "hit" by what he's saying, but it's not arrogance, it's just stating how things are (or at the very least an oppinion of how things are, agree with it or not)... I really enjoy his sense of humor and point of view.
Charles wrote:In Gilad's defense, I should stress that this was a conversation on perspectives (and therefore opinions) on the history, present and future of general purpose programing languages and associated runtime environments. Like all of us, Gilad is entitled to his opinion and if you disagree with his viewpoints, well, that's fine. Erik defended C++ (as I did), but Gilad has a point here. The fact that a language is successful does not mean that the language, from purely a language perspective, is successful.
I think it's awesome to showcase multiple viewpoints on a big topic like this. Gilad is not arrogant. He's strongly opinionated.This is a very good thing for the field.
aL_ wrote:
Charles wrote:
In Gilad's defense, I should stress that this was a conversation on perspectives (and therefore opinions) on the history, present and future of general purpose programing languages and associated runtime environments. Like all of us, Gilad is entitled to his opinion and if you disagree with his viewpoints, well, that's fine. Erik defended C++ (as I did), but Gilad has a point here. The fact that a language is successful does not mean that the language, from purely a language perspective, is successful.
I think it's awesome to showcase multiple viewpoints on a big topic like this. Gilad is not arrogant. He's strongly opinionated.This is a very good thing for the field.
you know gilad far better than me so i'll take your word for that![]()
im just saying, thats how he comes across to me in this interview(and others aswell)
other niners disagree and thats fine![]()
it's true that there are diffrent views of what makes a language successful, me beeing a industrial kind of programmer i guess i like pragmatismif i was a language designer, i can see how my views could be diffrent, like linguistic "beauty"
Frank Hileman wrote:Gilad is not arrogant. His comments are right on target. He does not avoid strong opinions.
These videos reach a much larger audience than the people at a programming language conference. While some may react badly to criticisim of their favorite technology (i.e. severe limitations in the CLR), the videos are a wonderful way to spread ideas to the larger audience. It is a great way to do "marketing" for these ideas.
Charles wrote:
My point was also that your view is yours and Gilad's is Gilad's. Neither is the "right" one. They just "are".
Charles wrote:
Keep on thinking!
Frank Hileman wrote:The Singualrity OS proved that inter-process communication, at least, can be faster when using a higher level language, as long as strict contracts are observed. This means drivers are best not written in a language such as c++, since they are a critical part of the OS stack.
I didn't find Gilad arrogant at all. I did find him to be Blunt and to the point.
Most in the language design world have pointed out the weaknesses in the CLR design. Even MS has acknowledged some of them. And it has been pointed out in earlier Video's.
Even C# was created as a better Java than Java.
The only way a Language improves is when the weakness is pointed out. sometimes the only way that is found is from the outside looking in.
On that point Newspeak is interesting with the "lack of a type system". and here is why.
A formalized type system can never module all the domains all the time.
To further that statement. If the type system in the framework was more flexable we wouldn't have to worry about the different domains that Linq is trying to solve.
On the other matter it does solve most of the common problems with pain points when interfacing into other domains.
douglas
aL_ wrote:(i also think that while the clr isnt perfect, its unfair to say that the its "severly limited")
Charles,
It is really nice to see you guys start paying attention to environment, lighthing and sound is definitely is a step up.
It doesn't apply to this interview but a suggestion:
When guests are doing a screen demo, it would be much better if you can just capture the screen into a video rather than pointing the camera to it...
But so far so good. Thanks..
Emre
I didn't think Gilad was arrogant - he just had a very dry sense of humour. And like many that are (to use the American term) "super-intelligent" his "social" skills are perhaps not as developed as they are for most of us who don't have a fraction of his
ability or talent.
Good video - beautifully controlled by Charles. A weaker interviewer would have struggled to get as much stuff out of his interviewees or would have taken offence at the perceived "arrogance" on display.
Thanks.
evildictaitor wrote:
Frank Hileman wrote:
The Singualrity OS proved that inter-process communication, at least, can be faster when using a higher level language, as long as strict contracts are observed. This means drivers are best not written in a language such as c++, since they are a critical part of the OS stack.
Depends. If your operating system trusts the people who are writing the drivers (as has tended to be the case in the past) then languages such as C++ and C will almost invariably be at least as fast as anything written in C# or other high-level pointerless languages.