Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

Play Ping 12: Mac vs Microsoft, Ipod vs Zune: The Ad Campaign War

The Discussion

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    Will there be a style beta for Office 2010. Office 2007 was one of the best beta programs I've been in. The happy face sad face feedback tool was great. I just want re invited Tongue Out.

    I think the ad wars are annoying. Apple stretches the truth quite a bit, and Microsoft's ads are just kind of lame. I guess my vision of Apple's retaliation is differnt, I think they are smug and just making fun of the campaign.

    Microsoft is there with security, they have been since Vista's release (arguably Windows XP x64 which is based on Windows Server 2003). I think Microsoft is catching up on performance. Windows 7 is quite snappy. Windows Mobile.....not as snappy and smooth as the iPhone, but I am hopeful for Windows Mobile 6.5 and 7.

    Ultimately I think Microsoft should just let the products speak for themselves. Windows the software is great. But their OEMs need to stay in check. When people buy a 500 dollar PC, it pretty much sucks. There needs to be a decent line of laptops between 1000-2000 dollars that is great quality. Apple's Macbook Pros feel so solid and nice. Aluminum body, lithium-polymer, batteries... I think some of Microsoft's OEMs are doing good work, but not consistantly and not all of them.

    I like the Zune. I do not like DRM though. The pass is not for me. Amazon and Zune's DRM free MP3s are nice. Simple. Just make the Zune better than the iPod and iPod touch. It is that simple. Screw the pass. Sure a lot of people will like it, it will work for lots of people. But if I wanted to stream that music or use the Play to feature in Windows 7, I can't.

    Oh and for a Zune ad , Zune Raw Deluxe, I like ads like that.


    Max pointed out he liked, as do I.

    Some Zune ads are just too interpretive. Especially at the very beginning, they were kind of psycho.... This was borderline but still good.

    If you look at the comments, the product does speak for itself.

    "I'd say durability too.

    I broke several ipods quickly, and I was taking care of them...

    I treat my Zune like crap and I've never had a problem with it.

    And that counts for alot.."
    "I used to be a huge ipod fan
    (I've had 4 stolen from me)
    And I'm currently borrowing my friend's zune..
    It's amazing. It takes iTunes and Windows Media formats.
    That's just the *! :D"

    "I love my brick 30gb zune. <3 It still works, just needed a break. If zune can get Internet Explorer/Built-in Speaks on there... Screw iPod Touch. :D (Owns one anyways.)"


    And to prove my point.

    "i don't get this commercial, but i love my zune"

    Microsoft is in a period where lots of great products will be released. Office 2010, Windows 7, Zune HD...just let the products speak for themselves with quality.


    I'd like you guys to explore

    Does Microsoft Game Studios have anything in the works? Are PC users going to suffer from console ports forever? Will this technology be viable? A laptop touchpad with an auxiliary display would be great.

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    those apple commecials are just silly.. disregarding  the fact that nither vista or 7 has had any large security scares and that there hasnt really been a [computer]virus scare in like.. years for any platform.

    disregarding that, its not like there is just one mac to choose from! the whole point of the ad is that there is only one or atleast very few options with macs, thus making selection simple, but thats just totaly false! there are macs with small screens, big screens there are fast macs and slow ones. its just sooo contradictory.. and choise is a bad thing? apple used to be all about choosing something diffrent, but now they're saying choise is bad? but the biggest flaw.. macs ARE PCs ffs Tongue Out its only the OS [and the TPM chip] that is diffrent

    apple shot them selvs in the foot on this one..

    however, you guys should watch out so you dont turn into a marketing show though.. Smiley  i agree with you but i think you'll loose viewer if its all "microsoft rulz, iphone sux" (not saying that it is, but its a slippery slope) it feels like every other show max talks about the awsomeness of the zune Smiley


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    I agree with you aL_- that's why we tried to cram all the marketing & ad news into one week- there was just too much to NOT mention it. But, that being said, we definitely want to represent honest opinions and not just BS Microsoft wonder dust Smiley  Thanks!

    Oh...and Max really IS a Zune fanboy- he talks about it at lunch, in his car, after work....


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    The only thing that comes to mind when i watch those apple commercials is that Karl Marx had it wrond.  If only he had focused on fancy graphic design and being 'trendy', thingls like communism, lack of free will and lack of choice would have prevailed.  Apple and thier line of products are the classic example of complete dictatorships housed in a nice package.   For intance, I've had a windows mobile phone for years.  I've never had to pay for ringtones or have service on the device in order to use it. IN fact i could literally drag and drop media from my desktop onto the phone.   I could purchase it and use it just as a PIM if i so desired.  Is that the case ofr apple's entry into the handled device world?  Windows is about FREEDOM, CHOICE, REPRESENTATION.  Microsoft to me has ALWAYS had an open ear to the community and done the responsible (not holier than thou) thing.  If I were involved in the Windows Ad campaign i would make a commercial which mimiced the 1984 commercial apple launched many years ago since that company has turned into everything it preached against. 

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    Wow, nice marketing video Channel 9. <yawn>

    But since we're on the subject - the fact that Microsoft still thinks it's competing with the iPod just shows how out of touch they are. I suppose MSN Search thinks they're still competing with Google too. Oh...

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    yeah i see your point Smiley counter arguing the mac ads is fine and that really needs to be done.. they think they can get away with anything Tongue Out just imagine if microsoft had a campaign like that about apple, apple would suuuuuuueeeee Tongue Out but talking about marketing as you do most of the ep, isnt marketing Smiley

    the max <3 zune parts are the ones in danger of the marketing slide imo Smiley but the man loves his music player and thats totaly fine, but the zune just isnt appealing enough for most people :/ its like win mobile, it could be soo great... but it isnt Sad or atleast its unclear why [and thus, if] its better than the competition. simply saying its great doesnt make it so :/

    maybe if max had some zune specials where the awsome features are described [in a non markety way, keeping away from phrases like "next-gen"]? thatd be cool.. max could talk to the dev team and the designers and prove how great the zune is Smiley

    again, im not saying you've fallen down the marketing hole now, but keep keeping an eye out Smiley


    exactly.. "think diffrent"? all macs looks basically the same, and for a long time, all ipods did look exactly the same. how is that "diffrent" one has to wonder.. apple truly is everything they accuse microsoft of beeing..

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    If you make an investment in the future (losing market share in the interim as a side effect), then that's the risk you take. Who's to say we aren't making gains and innovating these technologies outside the scope of social networking communication and press releases? Smiley


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    You're preaching to the choir by making this kind of video on this kind of site.

    I was really let down by by this video. We're IT pros and developers here, we don't care so much about dirt throwing between corporate MS and Apple companies.

    I thought ping was a view of whats going inside of Microsoft. This just isn't that.


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    A question arises about the scope of Channel 9. Are only developers and IT pros interested in the content we provide? Do we only target developers and IT folks? Should we not offer multiple content types to enable Channel 9, the communication philosophy, for a variety of customers and interested parties, with necessarily varied conceptual frameworks?

    Channel 9 has always been more than a community extension of MSDN... But you know this. Implicitly. Nobody tells you what to be interested in. Right? We will do our damn best to offer what you want in addition to what other people want, who may not want for the same things as you.

    Is it OK for C9 to evolve? You better believe we will be compatible with the past (Ping and Going Deep and This Week on Channel 9 and 10-4 and random long Charles interviews with orders of magnitude smarter people than himself, etc, can coexist here as here is Channel 9, which is more of a conceptual framework than it is a website or RSS feed or Video or Text post). 

    Channel 9 is a way, not only a destination, brothers and sisters.


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    I like Ping but I'm not sure that getting into the Apple vs MS space is really going to get anywhere or bring anything constructive to the table.
    I'd prefer Channel 9 to stay away from these topics that should be better left to the marketing machine.
    Being MS employees, you can't really be expected to be completely candid and unbiased on the issue and you can't expect your public to find you candid and unbiased.
    There is nothing wrong with rooting for your own company but if I want to see Apple propaganda and be entertained by the level of discourse surrounding them I can just go to youtube to watch them and read the 'my machine is better than your, suck it' comments.

    Channel 9 is a source of technical information and I'd like to see it stay focused on that.
    I'd like, and expect, MS to take the higher moral ground on this and just ignore the pettiness.
    I like that Channel 9 is offering videos for both the Zune and the iPod. It sound like a small thing but it's a clear statement of what Channel 9 stands for: being pragmatic and communicating with developers is more important than the brand of PC or video player they use.
    Good luck finding anything comparable at Apple.

    Oh by the way, after resisting purchasing an iPod for years, I relented the other day because the Zune 120Gb I really wanted isn't available where I live.
    Not just that but there is not s single Zune you can buy here or anywhere near here. Can't order it online either.
    MS is taking too long exporting the Zune outside of the US. In the meantime Apple is left with the whole market for itself.
    And that isn't Apple's fault.

  • User profile image

    i love the zune pass as well, the only problem is getting it in other countries outside the US. I know the zune is only sold in the states but you can still use the zune pass if you purchase it using a card. i just hope one day MS will sell the zune in other countries. Smiley

    ping back to my blog for those of you outside US 

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    totally agree on you the zune post one. sad Sad and here i am wanting to try my xna game on the zune.

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    I watched myself while trying to put myself in your shoes and you all are right... I'm coming off too marketing-like.  My apologies, fellow niners.

    To the point about bias, however, I really do believe in using the best technology for you.  So while the iPhone is not for me, I will never deny its absolutely superior web browsing capabilities.  And I will even admit here in this public forum that I prefer GMail due to its simplicity and integrated chat that many of my friends can often be found using.

    I am a technology enthusiast first, a Microsoft employee second, and Charles' friend third. Tongue Out

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    you stated that the Mac platform patched 67 holes. However you leave out the fact that only 27 of those were actually arbitrary code execution holes.

    And you kinda seem to ignore the fact that 10.5.7 was JUST released. 10.5.6 was released in December, 2008. That's 6 months, in which timeframe Windows had 6 monthly updates, and a number of urgent patches, which were out of cycle. 

    Now if you do the math, and go by the 14 fixes which you quote, then 6 * 14 = 84.

    Now that's ignoring the fact that Apple has to patch things which are bundled with the OS, like flash, for instance. Bugs which the Windows version has too. It's like if Windows update carried Flash updates. In fact, 3 of the bugs in 10.5.7 WAS in flash.

    But it's entirely reasonable to argue that it takes too long for Apple to patch things. But here's why: Their whole brand relies on the fact that everything is tested and it's a controlled environment. Apple has their 10.5.x updates, which come out every x months. However, they are then actually tested by developers, making sure that they don't break things.

    As for the subscription service: I can download ALL the music I want, from my ISP, at no extra cost on my bill. So hell no if I'm paying 15USD/Month for a thing, which I can get in Denmark anyways.


    EDIT: Also, you ignore the fact that Apple's adverts are FUNNY, much unlike Microsoft's. It's like the small guy in the classroom taking the piss on the cool guy in the class, who then tries to be all serious and fail epicly at it Big Smile

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    i think the key thing is that channel9 is about x at microsoft. having a show about marketing is fine, but having a marketing show is not Smiley re watching this ep i  actually think they do a pretty good job in having the show being about marketing, the ads are discussed, not really presented..

    it would actually be kinda interesting to hear from the marketing folks at microsfot and how they do what they do. microsoft marketing used to be really bad [hey, it sunk vista, a great os] but now something seems to have changed, atleast a little Smiley

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    surely you dont mean that microsoft is "the cool guy" Smiley imo the apple ads are the equivalent of a bully picking on a nerd, the nerd (microsoft) is technically superior but just not "cool". the bully (apple) is pretty but shallow and talks big but the features are mediocre..

    thats how i feel about apple and thats just my oppinion Smiley the apple ads are flat out lying and thats not cool..

    27 aribitrary code execution flaws is not really "beeing secure" now is it Smiley both windows and osx has bugs but a big part of the "apple [marketing] experience" is that there are no bugs and no viruses. there arent any claims like that for windows.. also, office updates are included in windows update and alot of the bug fixes concern office, not windows itself.

    secunia lists 94 vulns for vistas entire lifetime. unforunetly they've bundled up all the vulns for all osx versions (934 in total) so i can to an apples to apples [hah] comparison, but still. at the rate osx is going, it wont take long to hit 94 Smiley

    in any case. apple claims osx is secure. it isnt. no os is Smiley

    dont sweat it Smiley

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    Maddus Mattus


    That was a rollacoster ride!

    You guys use way to much volume and stop abusing the poor 9-Guy! It's not a stress doll!

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    OSX was shipped in 2000. Vista was shipped in 2007. That's 7 years worth of extra holes.


    Yet 7% of all holes known in Vista are unpatched. Only 4% have yet to be fixed in OSX.


    And if you take a look at the exploit which was in OSX, many of them have to do with third-party software.

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    .. witch translates to 4 vista holes and 5 osx holes that remains unpatched.. the percentage is only lower because there are more advisories for osx Smiley and even couning the extra years, osx has ten times the holes but has only been out for roughly 3 times as long 

    and again, microsoft doesnt claim their os is problem free. apple does.

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    Random thought stream approaching->

    Ad campaign war = combative, Mac vs PC = tired, My Dad is bigger than your Dad = so what! Office 2010 mini-ad thing, why is the camera moving away from the subject (the office logo), to me this infers that you want to get away from Office 2010. Ownership vs subscription, I'm an ancient relic, ownership every time, subscriptions are money down the drain. Tags look like they are behind bars and need freeing from their imprisonment, they also look angry. Recent ad campaigns, BMW the longer versions, links below. Microsoft ads = left brain, Apple = right brain. Microsoft improving in the creative space recently though, needs to be bolder and get out of it's (left brain) comfort zone.

    Especially like 'Ticker' and 'Star'. 'See how it feels' = pure art.

    Finally, Microsoft should stop being distracted by Apple, each time you mention them, you are giving them free advertising; then people get curious and go investigate.

    -> and, relax... All of the above IMHO Wink

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    Excellent points and good logic.  FYI: the figures I mentioned are from the article.

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    east or west iphone is the best


    for me the only differene that matter abt zune its capability for wireless connection despite its colour i like  the silver


    and abt offie 2010 technical preview

    it is already been leaked to torrents websites i dont know why is this big ads when it is already been leaked as we heard

    anyhow waiting for the technical preview from microsoft website itself

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    The_Saint- I love your comment style and those BMW ads are badass!

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    Bring Zune to Japan (and the rest of the world)...please.... Embarassed

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    Btw,... whats wrong with QR Code ? It's being used everywhere here in Japan.

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